RSS
Uncategorized

Striking a Pose (Women and Fantasy Covers)

Jim C. Hines /

A while back, we had a discussion on the blog about the cover art for my princess novels. For the most part, I really like these covers, but they’re not perfect.

Now I could talk about the way women are posed in cover art … or I could show you. I opted for the latter, in part because it helped me to understand it better. I expected posing like Danielle to feel a little weird and unnatural. I did not expect immediate, physical pain from trying (rather unsuccessfully) to do the hip thing she’s got going on.

I recruited my wife to take the pictures, which she kindly did with a minimum of laughter.

spacer Being me, I naturally couldn’t stop there. I headed over to Amazon and grabbed a sampling of book covers, primarily urban fantasy, and spent the evening doing a photoshoot. Click on if you want to see the results (or if you just really want to see a shot of topless Jim).

spacer

spacer

spacer

spacer

spacer

I’m tempted to use the Night Myst pic as my new author photo.

In all seriousness, I spent the rest of last night with pain running through most of my back. Even the pose in The Shape of Desire, which first struck me as rather low-key, is difficult to imitate and feels really forced. Trying to launch my chest and buttocks in two different directions a la Vicious Grace? Just ow.

To be clear, there’s nothing wrong with being sexual. I can totally see Snow from the princess books flaunting her stuff, for example. But posing like these characters drives home exactly what’s being emphasized and what’s not.

My sense is that most of these covers are supposed to convey strong, sexy heroines, but these are not poses that suggest strength. You can’t fight from these stances. I could barely even walk.

Guys, you should try it sometime. Get someone who won’t laugh at you too much to try to help you match these poses. The physical challenge is far more enlightening than anything I could say. (Wardrobe changes are optional.)

A few covers which I feel do a pretty good job of conveying strong, capable female characters: The Gaslight Dogs, An Artificial Night, The Darkest Edge of Dawn. Other suggestions and general discussion are welcome, as always.

Related: A contortionist and martial artist tries to imitate a comic book “fighting pose” … and can’t do it.

« Jig vs. Jig: Fan Writer and Other Hugo Stuff » Follow-up to the Fantasy Poses

314 Comments

1 2 3 »
  1. s33r
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 09:38:47

    Dayum.

    You should do more of these. For… Um… activism. Yeah.

    • Jim C. Hines
      Jan 11, 2012 @ 09:46:24

      Heh … Sorry, no more until my back recovers spacer

    • Sylvia
      Jan 11, 2012 @ 15:04:37

      We *definitely* need more. These are AWESOME!

    • Meredith
      Jan 22, 2012 @ 20:13:25

      Yes! Activism. Certainly not because some of us find genderbending strangely appealing. Nope.

  2. Christopher
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 09:58:51

    When I saw your post on Google+ I wasn’t expecting what I saw on your blog. You cracked me up! You’re a very brave man for both trying those poses and publishing your photos. Big thumbs up.

    • Jim C. Hines
      Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:27:20

      Hey, writers are all about “Show don’t tell,” right? spacer

      • WK Trail
        Jan 12, 2012 @ 11:01:43

        Especially when you’re showing that you can be a little bit foxxy!

  3. Kelly
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:24:35

    Nice show don’t tell! Really gets the point across. Plus, it looks like fun (if a little painful). I’d be interested in seeing the same done for male cover art, to see how big the difference is.

    • Jim C. Hines
      Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:28:07

      That’s the second request I’ve gotten for male cover poses. I may give that a shot…

      (And it was kind of fun, if you ignore the painful parts!)

  4. Sean Sweeney
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:25:39

    OMFG Jimmy….. I think I just wet myself a little.

    • Jim C. Hines
      Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:28:59

      New disclaimer proposal: Please don diapers before reading this blog.

  5. kimberlycreates
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:28:22

    In defense of the Ringo cover, that woman does appear to be floating. If that’s any kind of defense…

    • Jim C. Hines
      Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:30:51

      Yep – I think there may be some in-story explanation for *some* of what’s going on there. But even if we ignore the legs, that pose with the swords is (to my eye) rather bizarre, and then there’s the wardrobe…

  6. Anke
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:31:55

    Hey, did you see the blog post in which a martial artist and contortionist talked about how impossible poses routinely used for female superheroes are? ‘s here: justsayins.tumblr.com/post/14957660366/this-needs-to-stop-and-let-me-tell-you-why

    Sadly, not as visual as your post. spacer

    • Jim C. Hines
      Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:38:41

      Yep! It’s linked at the very bottom of my post spacer

      • Anke
        Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:39:29

        Ah, silly me. Anyway, can’t be linked enough, that. spacer

      • Wrenn
        Jan 11, 2012 @ 17:38:59

        I’d add to the list – martial artists, contortionists – and dancers could pull off many of these moves.

        But it’s really goes to show how much the ‘female figure cover art’ more closely follows the pictures of professional models posing than anything from reality. Most model picture poses are forced and uncomfortable.

        • Tara Maya
          Jan 19, 2012 @ 12:05:55

          There’s a cognitive scientist who has speculated that the female poses men find most attractive are those that exaggerate the positions women find easier to do than men–poses that rely on hips, in particular. The entire point is that a man would look ridiculous trying to do it. That’s what makes it feminine.

          I think you just illustrated that far better than the original cognitive scientist.

          • K
            Jan 20, 2012 @ 13:14:59

            Who says women can do these poses more easily? I am a former figure skater; my hips don’t do that. I work with models as a photographer, most of them can hold those poses about as long as Mr Hines did, and they are in just as much pain.

          • Shauna Roberts
            Jan 20, 2012 @ 13:42:36

            Excellent point, Tara. As a former anthropologist, I should have thought of this point.

            To elaborate a little further on my comment earlier that I can get into and stay in these poses easily, I am 55 years old and no longer skinny. However, I do yoga and belly dance, so my muscles aren’t locked into constricted positions as most people’s (especially men’s) are.

            And to flip things around, I would look silly too if Jim photographed me in some of the poses men are in on book covers. They emphasize broad shoulders, tallness, strength, and narrow hips.

  7. Kathryn
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:39:05

    I’m laughing a lot, and I think that makes your point all the more poignant.

    I think artistic license is allowable (see Stepsister Scheme cover), because obviously artists have their own styles and so on, but there are covers which really take it too far (Urban Fantasy is problem numero uno). I’m fine with posing, but it does tend to look a bit daft at times…

    It’s like the artists who insist on drawing boobplate armour – Stop it! It’s ridiculous, and it’s actually dangerous for the wearer. No self-respecting warrior would run into battle with boobplate armour as it directs blows towards the heart, and if you trip you could crack your sternum.

    • Jim C. Hines
      Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:45:52

      I need to keep better track of the things I read online, because I came across a post a while back from an actual armorer, talking about armor for women. She had made one breasplate that actually conformed to the breasts, for a custom order, and she brought up exactly those points — even though everything is covered, the shape guides the weapon to the center of the chest, and if she falls facefirst on the ground, that groove is going to do nasty things to the sternum…

      • Kathryn
        Jan 11, 2012 @ 12:03:46

        *coughs politely*
        madartlab.com/2011/12/14/fantasy-armor-and-lady-bits/
        *coughs politely*

        I have it bookmarked for moments just like this one spacer

        • Jim C. Hines
          Jan 11, 2012 @ 12:04:49

          You rock, thank you!

  8. Jeff Linder
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:46:07

    I’m thinking you may have hit upon the next physical fitness craze to come after Zumba!

  9. JM Frey
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:52:27

    I think what I like best about these photos, Jim, is that you have nerf rifles and swords just laying around the house to pose with. That makes you awesome.

    And I agree with above comment about showing, not telling. You’re made a very important point here and got us to laugh while doing so. Bravo!

    • Jim C. Hines
      Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:54:52

      And lightsabers!

      I’ve got real swords as well, but I also have little kids, so those tend to stay put away spacer

  10. Heather Gran
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 10:58:35

    LOL!!! Oh my (a la George Takei). Thanks Jim, I needed that.

    No one can say you aren’t brave!

    With regards to the breastplate armor… almost every self-respecting female fighter I know (in the SCA) straps themselves down before putting on their mostly armor. I do know of one who had the custom work done, but that was a LONG time ago. The most molding I’ve seen done is a slight bump because on normal women, the chest is not the same size as the waist. Most of the ones I know wear leather anyway, and it kinda shapes itself after a while.

  11. Margaret
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:02:19

    One of my favorites is Ingres’ Odalisque – the only reason she can do what she’s doing is that she has a few extra vertebrae to do it with.

  12. Mary Rodgers
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:02:21

    ::gasping for breath through laughter:: You are my new urban fantasy contortionist hero, Jim. Bravo!

    Ha ha ha ha ha. Hee hee. ::wipes away tears:: This made my morning.

  13. Daniel Abraham
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:11:55

    Speaking as MLN Hanover, I am only sorry you didn’t include the improbable leather pants and chains.

    • Jim C. Hines
      Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:18:17

      If only! Alas, my leather pants were at the cleaners…

  14. Tracie W.
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:17:36

    Thank you, Jim, for your brave and hilarious send-up of these ridiculous covers. It’s funny how a little gender reversal highlights the absurdity of hyper-sexualized mages of women. Also, nerf weapons FTW!

  15. Bibliotropic
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:19:52

    LOVE this post! It really puts things into perspective. Not that I didn’t have much the same opinion before seeing this post, but nevertheless, what you did it awesome and really makes a point. I’ve never quite understood why it is that the strong female leads of so many fantasy and urban fantasy novels have to have it demonstrated in cover art by showing off so much skin and striking poses that look like they’re borderline painful sometimes. Sex appeal =/= equal strength.

  16. Lila Mihalik
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:22:30

    Loved it! I’ve always wondered and never had the heart to try it for myself (and I’m a girl) because I knew I wouldn’t be able to do those kind of poses- I’m not exactly stick thin and only slightly nimble!

  17. Anna
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:24:55

    I recently bought Ann Aguirre’s Grimspace because the cover showed a strong woman in a reasonable pose. The character’s boots do have a bit of a heel, but at least she isn’t wearing stilettos. The book looked interesting but it was mainly the artist’s work that I wanted to support with my $. I ended up really liking the book and buying the series but it was the great cover that attracted my attention.

    • Jim C. Hines
      Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:30:29

      The artist is Scott Fischer – the same one who did the covers for 3/4 of my princess books spacer

    • Adibug
      Jan 26, 2012 @ 22:04:42

      I loved Grimspace. I picked it up for almost exactly the same reason.

      At least the Parasol Protectorate series has real women posing in real costumes, they are wearing corsets but they have a legitimate (read historical) reason.

  18. Elizabeth Anne Ensley
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:30:10

    “My name is Jim, and I’m about to fall off this couch.” It is A Very Good Thing I’d finished off my cup first, or it would have been a waste of good coffee, as my computer monitor and keyboard have not acquired “the taste”.

    • Jim C. Hines
      Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:50:23

      Disclaimer: The owner of this website is not responsible for any keyboard damage incurred during the reading of this blog.

  19. Anita K.
    Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:45:00

    That was great! spacer

    To be fair, it would help your hip-thrust action if you were built like a woman (it helps to have hips before you thrust them! at least it helps a little, I’m pretty sure my back would also kill me for those poses and I could give you hips and still have plenty left).

    My little sister and my girlfriend both actually do sit like the second cover pretty frequently. Though I think the angling of the body is a bit different, so as not to overbalance, and you have to have a somewhat higher and firmer couch than it looks like you are using. They can also both sit flat on the floor with both legs on one side, the way they used to teach girls to sit in skirts.

    But yeah, most of those poses just don’t convey anything LIKE “strong and sexy,” but more like “I’m going to die in a minute here because I’m showing off instead of paying attention to my surroundings or WEARING PROPER ATTIRE TO BE FIGHTING IN.” That one is my other pet peeve. How are they going to move in those pants? If they’re going around with a gun why are they not wearing a SHIRT or even a properly supportive garment for their “tracts of land”? If they’re prepared for a fight why did they not tie back their hair?

    • Jim C. Hines
      Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:49:34

      Anatomy and skeletal engineering are a factor, yes. But there’s definitely more going on here than just those physical differences.

      I knew I forgot something. I should have been doing these poses in heels! spacer

      • Vanades
        Jan 11, 2012 @ 13:01:18

        The heels are definitely missing spacer

        Reminds me of the movie In Time where even the guys left the cinema muttering that those shoes were insane and that it would have made more sense if the heroine had ditched the heels and put on some boots.

      • Anita K.
        Jan 11, 2012 @ 13:05:26

        Haha! You definitely should have worn heels! spacer Maybe that would have forced your hips into the weird tiltiness required (at least, that’s one reason I refuse to wear them)

gipoco.com is neither affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible for its contents. This is a safe-cache copy of the original web site.