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Misbehaving on the page
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By mikepence in Media
Fri Dec 03, 2004 at 04:13:49 PM EST
Tags: Interviews (all tags)
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It started innocently enough, with a manual Olivetti typewriter at the age of 12, a writer's gateway drug if ever there was such a thing. By 1974, at the age of 15, Scott Rosenberg, the left-handed younger son of a physician, was huddled in the basement of his family's Queens house over his latest toy, a hand-cranked mimeograph machine. Now the world of publishing was at his fingertips and the steady thwack-thwack-thwack of copies coming off of the press joined the pungent scent of ink rising up the basement steps. The tie-dyed 60's had given way to the polyester 70's, but it still smelled like revolution.

Today Rosenberg is still front and center in the information revolution as managing editor and senior vice president for editorial operations of the popular on line magazine, Salon.com. He spoke with Kuro5hin about his 30-year journey from that Queens basement to downtown San Francisco, his struggle to maintain his distinctive voice from the mimeograph to the web, and his thoughts on the future of the net.


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Credit the damp, dark, interminable Northeastern winters for sending many a creative soul inside to ruminate on entire worlds of imagination. Back in 1974, it was the role-playing games Diplomacy and Dungeons & Dragons that filled those chilly days. The players exchanged turns through the mail, and many, like Rosenberg, published newsletters for their fellow gamers. It was "a community of people who were simultaneously readers and publishers," said Rosenberg, "who believed that something could be significant on a small scale, that there could be fun and value in producing a publication without being beholden to a boss or uber-editor." These gaming communities were harbingers of the on line communities to come - bloggers in bell-bottoms.

In the space of a few short years Rosenberg went from tinkering in his basement to producing a daily newspaper. At New York's tony Horace Mann private school he learned to write like a journalist under the tutelage of senior classmate Charlie Varon, now a noted San Francisco playwright. At Harvard, on the staff of the Harvard Crimson, he helped produce a daily paper with a rich radical tradition. The paper had been instrumental during the high-protest years of the late 60's and early 70's and there remained "a romantic aura around that - a sense that great battles had been fought," said Rosenberg. Forget the secret societies of Harvard, "we did our misbehaving on the page."

The call to adventure came in the form of an invitation to journey west where Will Hearst, grandson of publishing magnate William Randolph Hearst, was infusing alternative press mojo into the staid San Francisco Examiner. Rosenberg had established himself as a theater, film and book critic in the pages of the Village Voice, American Lawyer and the alternative weekly Boston Phoenix. Criticism provided a way for him to continue to express his opinions, something that he had been doing since those first furtive taps on the Olivetti when he was 12 - something he was not about to give up.

The prosperous 80's slowed the decay of the crumbling Hearst empire, but only temporarily. Rosenberg and his fellow writers built a widely-acclaimed arts section for the Examiner. He received the George Jean Nathan Award in 1989 for his work, noting his "clear, witty, elegant style." The beginning of the end of his days at the Examiner came when San Francisco's newspaper workers went on strike in November of 1994.

The two week strike slammed one door closed and opened another. After the strike management of the Examiner remained bitter toward the workers. During the strike the guild members did something extraordinary. They published a strike paper, the San Francisco Free Press, on a new medium: the world wide web. Rosenberg taught himself HTML and experienced the immediate gratification of web publishing for the first time. "The strike paper was just this kind of wonderful, exciting experience," he said. "All of the energy that I felt as a teenager publishing on my mimeograph, here it was again." Minus, of course, the fumes and thwack-thwack-thwack sounds.

One manager who was sympathetic to the workers at the Examiner was David Talbot, who had long hoped to start his own magazine. Finding investors to back a foray into the crowded world of glossy magazines was difficult at best, so Rosenberg and his associates encouraged Talbot to leave the Examiner and publish on the web. "Our colleagues viewed us as insane for leaving union jobs that were like having tenure, where you couldn't be fired unless you got drunk and assaulted someone," said Rosenberg. Crazy or not, Talbot, Rosenberg and several others took the leap. One year after the strike, in November of 1995, Salon.com was on line.

From the beginning, Salon was unique. Backed by investment from Adobe and hosted on the servers that had housed Apple's failed eWorld service, Salon was "created by a group of editors and writers rather than according to some marketing demographic," said Rosenberg. "David Talbot's original notion was to combine a certain level of intelligence with a certain amount of tabloid liveliness." Its long book reviews and overall literary quality fostered comparisons to the New Yorker. Salon was Time magazine's Web Site of the Year in 1996.

Salon embraces opinion but insists on truthfulness. "Objectivity is not really a part of Salon's DNA," said Rosenberg. "It is naive to think that a human being can be objective. We all know that reporters have perspectives of their own. When you read a story in the Atlantic, Harper's or in the New Yorker you know that the reporter is going to shape that material and give it a point of view." Opinion, yes, deceit, no. "If we know that something is not true we are not going to publish it," he said.

Fairness also dictates giving voice to opposing points of view, not simply following the party line. In 2000, Salon published a cover story by Andrew Sullivan, endorsing Bush. Salon's executive editor, Gary Kamiya, joined the chorus of praise for Bush's rousing speech given in the wake of 911. At the start of the current Iraq war, then senior news editor Ed Lempinen penned a fervent piece backing the war -- also a Salon cover story. "We'll do things like that that you wouldn't find at a campaign web site, and that I don't think you'd find at Fox News, frankly. When we publish a cover story endorsing Bush, it's by Andrew Sullivan and we're not editing it to make it less impassioned," said Rosenberg. "With Fox [News], you have this absurdity of this network that has the slogan "Fair and Balanced" which is just this ludicrous taunt, given what they are."

Fox News did not respond to a request for comment.

Publishing opposing views has its challenges. "I'll be really blunt," said Rosenberg, "it's a lot harder in 2004 to find intelligent people who will write a pro-Bush piece. They are few and far between."

In June of 1999, at the height of the internet bubble, Salon offered their IPO and Scott Rosenberg was made managing editor. The sudden infusion of cash presented its own problems. "For the year and a half to two years after our IPO clearly we spent way too much money," said Rosenberg, "it was in an era in which other people were doing so far more stupidly and aggressively than we were. We were supposed to grow big and take over parts of the market - that was the script."

Salon followed the script, ballooning to over 140 people and producing 40 to 50 pages of content every day. Excellent content from incredibly skilled writers, but too much too fast. Just a year after their IPO, the layoffs began. The talented friends that Rosenberg had surrounded himself with, he now had to let go. "It was one of the hardest things I've gone through in my life," he said.

Salon survived the dot-com implosion by cutting early and drastically. Their stock was de-listed from the NASDAQ just three and a half years from its IPO but things have stabilized in the face of many premature obituaries. Rosenberg, currently on a long overdue book-writing sabbatical, is hopeful, "For the last two years or so things have been really stable. The fact is, we've lost progressively less and less money. This year has seen a serious upturn in advertising."

As for the future of the net, Rosenberg says we'll have to wait and see:

I tend to think that we are, in the world of digital media, at about where TV was in 1960. That's the year that everyone watched Nixon and Kennedy debate before the camera, and realized that things were changing. But I don't think people then had any idea what was coming. The lessons people took from that were, you know, Nixon looked really bad, he needed a shave. And you might have come away thinking, the future's all about lighting! Or if you were a little more insightful maybe you started to think that we were moving toward a political system where a leader's appearance was going to matter more than his policies. But you could never have predicted Governor Schwarzenegger, or Fox News, or the Daily Show, or the Swift Boat Veterans for "Truth."

So we're where TV was in 1960 -- at a point where we know something is going to be hugely important, but not yet at the stage where we know exactly where it's going to take us. To the extent that an ever greater portion of people's media diet gets consumed in a two-way realm like the Net rather than a one-way broadcast universe, I have to think that's good.  And to the extent that growing numbers of people see themselves as creators of media and not just recipients of messages, that can only be good for our culture and our democracy.

Whether slaying imaginary dragons, editorializing at Harvard, criticizing theater in San Francisco, or speaking truth to power on the web, Scott Rosenberg has never hesitated to saunter up to the table, in his own unassuming way, and roll the poly-sided dice. Even in the face of a second Bush administration, he's undaunted. "The Bush victory, however disheartening it is for most of us as citizens, is only good news for Salon as an institution. We've always thrived as an alternative, independent outlet, as a sort of smart and fearless opposition publication, and we now have such an abundance of stuff that cries out to be opposed, it's hard to know where to begin."

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Display: Sort:
Misbehaving on the page | 34 comments (28 topical, 6 editorial, 0 hidden)
Good stuff (2.42 / 7) (#3)
by rusty on Fri Dec 03, 2004 at 01:24:16 AM EST

Now get him in here to answer some questions. I've got a couple. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
A Fair And Balance Paraphrase (2.50 / 4) (#9)
by thelizman on Fri Dec 03, 2004 at 02:31:28 PM EST

"I'll be really blunt," said thelizman, "it's a lot harder in 2004 to find intelligent people who will write an anti-Bush piece. They are few and far between."
Lets face it folks. The debate going on in the public arena has been one of "Bush Sucks" vs "Bush Rocks". The left wasn't even trying to make a reasonably intelligent arguement against Bush, and the right was sick of even trying to argue with the left at all.

Oh, and +1 mikepence. He is about the only leftwit on this site who can form a coherent sentence, and punctuate properly.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
Bonus material (3.00 / 4) (#11)
by mikepence on Fri Dec 03, 2004 at 03:45:29 PM EST

There were some questions that were covered that did not fit into the flow of the overall piece. I present some of those here. Think of it like DVD bonus material -- presented without adornment or polish.

K5: [From a conservative friend.] Is there a conflict between Salon's duties to its shareholders and its more overt political partisanship as the Bush administration years have progressed?

SR: The answer is no, quite the reverse. There's no doubt that every time Salon has become a little more direct in its partisanship it has helped our business. When we survey our readers and ask them why they have paid for a subscription the overwhelming majority tell us it's because they want to support Salon's independent voice. They feel that the perspective we offer is not well represented by the dominant media. Our independence and perspective is what marketing people would call our "brand identifier"; it's a key part of what gets people to subscribe. The other part is our overall quality and our credibility.

K5: No matter who gets elected, there is going to be ninety-something percent of the congress that gets put back into office and the same unelected government officials running things on the ground. What do you say to people who feel like our choice is artificial in terms of affecting actual change? [Posed before the election.]

SR: John Kerry is not perfect, and there are many things about his career that I disagree with, and there are probably positions he has that I disagree with, but I look at the Bush presidency and I think, this is a disaster. I have two children who are five years old right now and I'm thinking long term. The mistakes that Bush has made already in the last four years are affecting decades to come. We had solved the long-term Social Security problem. He took that money and threw it away. We had an effective and bipartisan response to the terrorist attack and he had the nation united. He had an opportunity to change some really fundamental things, and he didn't. Instead, he made this colossal strategic error [the Iraq war] that we and our children will be paying for for decades. Then we have the Supreme Court in the balance.

These things are urgent. They are above the level of systemic problems [in our political system]. This is a time in which hugely important things are at stake. I feel that way for myself, for my children, and I can't sit here and tell you that I agree that this is just "meet the new boss / same as the old boss." I don't view it that way at all.

K5: In retrospect, was it a mistake to go public?

SR: If we hadn't gone public, I think that the odds are pretty good that we wouldn't still be here. If you look at the companies that were compared with Salon at the time - I mean, look at a great publication like Feed, which I was a huge fan of: Feed had content that was certainly the same quality as Salon's, a lot of very smart people wrote for it and were editing it, but they stayed small and they ran out of money. It's gone.

K5: Our site has integrated discussion and stories, something that I've long wished Salon had. Why are Table Talk and Salon proper decoupled?

SR: It wasn't supposed to be that way. Our original conception of Salon was that each article would have a thread in Table Talk, and that that would be where people would go to comment on the articles and give us feedback and whatnot. What we learned very quickly, and what in retrospect may be kind of obvious, is that the software determines a lot more than you think it does. It was very hard in 1995 to accomplish that kind of integration technically. It was hard for anyone and it was especially hard for us because we had invested no money, resources or staff on the technical side. That just wasn't our strength.

K5: Salon did not initially encourage Letters to the Editor...

SR: We found that the magazine metaphor was so powerful that people wanted to send us LTE and they just started doing it, and we said, if this is what the users want to do, why should we stand in the way and tell them no. So, we created a LTE thing and that became a huge channel of feedback that continues to this day.

What we'd like to do long term, and we've talked about this, is to turn what is now our LTE private e-mail and make it public. Anyone who sends a letter in, there it is.

K5: When you moved to California, did you know what you were in for?

SR: I had never been to California, it was not on my radar, except that I had seen Annie Hall and I knew that Los Angeles was a place where people with brains got beaten up. San Francisco and Northern California, there is a difference, its a little bit of a different world. I got here and I fell in love with it.

After it was all said and done, Scott's biggest regret -- aside from having to lay off so many of his friends -- was that he didn't pick up a guitar until he was 25.

In the end, we all just want to be juke box heroes.

Thanks to Anthony and Daniel DiAngelus for their contributions to this interview, and thanks to Scott Rosenberg for putting up with a month of rewrites and follow-up questions.

MP

On wrting for Salon (3.00 / 12) (#14)
by johnny on Fri Dec 03, 2004 at 06:17:47 PM EST

I've written three articles for Salon. Two of them were longish two-parters. Several people have asked how I went about it, so here go
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