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Feb 6 2004, 03:00
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#1
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Musepack Project Coordinator Group: Developer Posts: 161 Joined: 24-June 02 Member No.: 2385 |
The short sample in question is from "V-Tracks - Subway 26".
SK1 (a former member) and I detected a sample from a trance track that has some pre-echo problems with LAME 3.90.3, even at higher settings like --alt-preset insane. I sat down and tested the sample, and indeed, 9/9, alhough I needed more than an hour to finish this test. We decided to see if it's a codec-related problem and prepared samples with MPC --insane, Vorbis GT3b2 -q 8, Nero AAC 6.3.0.3 at the VBR settings of Extreme and Audiophile, and finally, OptimFROG DualStream. I concentrated on position 00:00.4 - 00:00.8. Throughout the sample, there are repeating hi-hats on the left channel. They are smeared by the pre-echo effect. In order to rule out any possible distortion/aliasing problems because of the sound cards resampling from 44.1 KHz to 48 KHz, we used Naoki Shibata's SSRC 1.29 with these settings: SSRC.exe --twopass --dither 0 --rate 48000 V-Tracks.wav V-Tracks-48.wav OK, here we go: I had mixed luck with Nero Extreme. I could not concentrate enough to get 5 in a row, but I managed 4/4 about 5 times during 5 minutes. Unfortunately WinABX froze, and this log can only shows my miserable attempts to succeed again after running it for the second time. It's 4 AM and I will probably quit now: WinABX v0.41 test report 02/06/2004 00:51:41 A file: E:\V-Tracks-48.wav B file: D:\V-Tracks-48-nero_extreme.wav 00:59:25 1/1 p=50.0% 00:59:45 2/2 p=25.0% 01:00:31 2/3 p=50.0% 01:00:50 2/4 p=68.8% 01:00:52 reset 01:01:10 1/1 p=50.0% 01:01:51 2/2 p=25.0% 01:05:28 2/3 p=50.0% 01:05:30 reset 01:05:39 1/1 p=50.0% 01:06:35 1/2 p=75.0% 01:06:37 reset 01:06:45 1/1 p=50.0% 01:06:53 2/2 p=25.0% 01:07:02 3/3 p=12.5% 01:07:47 3/4 p=31.2% 01:09:23 4/5 p=18.8% 01:10:31 4/6 p=34.4% 01:10:34 reset 01:10:54 1/1 p=50.0% 01:11:03 2/2 p=25.0% 01:11:12 2/3 p=50.0% 01:11:15 reset 01:11:24 1/1 p=50.0% 01:11:37 1/2 p=75.0% 01:11:38 reset 01:11:55 1/1 p=50.0% 01:13:18 1/2 p=75.0% 01:13:20 reset 01:13:30 1/1 p=50.0% 01:14:09 1/2 p=75.0% 01:14:13 reset 01:17:41 1/1 p=50.0% 01:20:06 1/2 p=75.0% ---------------------------------------- I can always detect the "swoosh" sound on my first ABX attempt, but I get tired after. SK1 had much more luck. He uses a better sound card, an Audigy, as opposed to my SB128 with its weak volume. His headphones are more suited for such a test (Sennheiser HD580, while I still have the open HD495S). Lucky him. Here are the logs from his various attempts: LAME 3.90.3 --alt-preset insane (easy): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/05/2004 21:25:17 A file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48.wav B file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48-lame_api.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:08.2 21:25:39 1/1 p=50.0% 21:25:57 2/2 p=25.0% 21:26:20 3/3 p=12.5% 21:26:40 4/4 p=6.2% 21:27:21 5/5 p=3.1% 21:27:29 6/6 p=1.6% 21:27:51 7/7 p=0.8% 21:28:09 8/8 p=0.4% 21:28:45 9/9 p=0.2% 21:28:54 10/10 p< 0.1% 21:29:07 11/11 p< 0.1% 21:29:22 12/12 p< 0.1% 21:29:24 test finished ------------------------ Nero 6.3.0.3, Extreme, VBR. Both Nero samples were kindly prepared for us by menno. (very easy): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/06/2004 00:51:07 A file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48.wav B file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48-nero_extreme.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:08.2 00:52:04 1/1 p=50.0% 00:52:12 2/2 p=25.0% 00:52:24 3/3 p=12.5% 00:52:37 4/4 p=6.2% 00:52:46 5/5 p=3.1% 00:52:55 6/6 p=1.6% 00:53:11 7/7 p=0.8% 00:53:24 8/8 p=0.4% 00:53:32 9/9 p=0.2% 00:53:39 10/10 p< 0.1% 00:53:44 11/11 p< 0.1% 00:53:50 12/12 p< 0.1% 00:54:03 test finished ------------------------ Nero 6.3.0.3, Audiophile, VBR (very hard): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/06/2004 01:26:45 A file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48.wav B file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48-nero_audiophile.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:08.2 01:27:23 1/1 p=50.0% 01:27:30 2/2 p=25.0% 01:27:59 3/3 p=12.5% 01:28:09 4/4 p=6.2% 01:28:20 5/5 p=3.1% 01:29:49 6/6 p=1.6% 01:31:55 7/7 p=0.8% 01:32:08 test finished ----------------------- Oggenc GT3b2, Xiph.Org/Sjeng.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (GTune 3, beta 2), -q 8 (hard): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/06/2004 01:45:08 A file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48.wav B file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48-vorbis_q8.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:08.2 01:45:30 1/1 p=50.0% 01:45:44 2/2 p=25.0% 01:46:25 3/3 p=12.5% 01:46:36 4/4 p=6.2% 01:47:04 5/5 p=3.1% 01:47:55 6/6 p=1.6% 01:48:29 7/7 p=0.8% 01:48:36 test finished ----------------------- DualStream --mode extra --quality 0, file bitrate = 276.8 kbps (failure to ABX): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/06/2004 02:18:39 A file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48.wav B file: E:\test\v-tracks-48-ofs_extra_quality0.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:08.2 02:18:57 1/1 p=50.0% 02:19:20 2/2 p=25.0% 02:19:39 2/3 p=50.0% 02:19:48 2/4 p=68.8% 02:20:21 3/5 p=50.0% 02:20:34 4/6 p=34.4% 02:20:42 4/7 p=50.0% 02:20:47 test finished ----------------------- MPC - mppenc 1.15r --quality 7 (failure to ABX): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/06/2004 02:23:34 A file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48.wav B file: E:\test\V-Tracks-48-mpc_insane.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:08.2 02:24:18 0/1 p=100.0% 02:24:54 1/2 p=75.0% 02:25:20 2/3 p=50.0% 02:25:58 3/4 p=31.2% 02:26:21 3/5 p=50.0% 02:27:03 4/6 p=34.4% 02:27:24 4/7 p=50.0% 02:28:03 5/8 p=36.3% 02:28:22 6/9 p=25.4% 02:28:52 6/10 p=37.7% 02:29:36 6/11 p=50.0% 02:29:45 test finished ------------------------ We would like to hear about your experiences too. With AAC, mostly, since it's relevant to this forum. I am adding a link to the original sample, APE, 48 KHz (no need to SSRC) through a .torrent file. =========================================== V-Tracks - Subway 26 - Monkey's Audio, extra high, 48 KHz This post has been edited by Seed: Feb 6 2004, 03:28 -------------------- And if Warhol's a genius, what am I? A speck of lint on the ***** of an alien
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Feb 6 2004, 12:01
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#2
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Server Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4644 Joined: 24-September 01 Member No.: 13 |
I can ABX mpc standard and xtreme on this relatively easy (on both 44.1 and 48 versions). No luck with insane. Maybe I will try that another time.
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Feb 6 2004, 20:47
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#3
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Musepack Project Coordinator Group: Developer Posts: 161 Joined: 24-June 02 Member No.: 2385 |
Here's yet another short sample and more results:
The sample is taken from: DJ Jan - X-Santo (Angel mix) - VA album Party Time 4 - 1997 The problem: pre-echo that is even more pronounced and easier to hear, since the drums are now isolated LAME 3.90.3 --alt-preset insane (easy): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/06/2004 18:45:36 A file: E:\test2\x-santo-48.wav B file: E:\test2\x-santo-48-lame_api.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:03.7 18:46:16 1/1 p=50.0% 18:46:25 2/2 p=25.0% 18:46:33 3/3 p=12.5% 18:46:43 4/4 p=6.2% 18:46:54 5/5 p=3.1% 18:47:02 6/6 p=1.6% 18:47:24 7/7 p=0.8% 18:47:30 8/8 p=0.4% 18:47:39 9/9 p=0.2% 18:48:08 10/10 p< 0.1% 18:48:21 11/11 p< 0.1% 18:48:46 12/12 p< 0.1% 18:48:49 test finished ----------------------- Oggenc GT3b2, Xiph.Org/Sjeng.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (GTune 3, beta 2), -q 8 (hard): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/06/2004 18:51:11 A file: E:\test2\x-santo-48.wav B file: E:\test2\x-santo-48-vorbis_gt3b2_q8.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:03.7 18:51:44 1/1 p=50.0% 18:52:16 2/2 p=25.0% 18:52:36 3/3 p=12.5% 18:53:01 4/4 p=6.2% 18:53:28 5/5 p=3.1% 18:54:24 6/6 p=1.6% 18:54:36 7/7 p=0.8% 18:55:59 8/8 p=0.4% 18:57:10 9/9 p=0.2% 18:59:43 10/10 p< 0.1% 18:59:47 test finished ----------------------- Nero 6.3.0.3's AAC encoder, Extreme, VBR. Both Nero samples were kindly prepared by Case. (very easy): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/06/2004 20:01:38 A file: E:\test2\x-santo-48.wav B file: E:\test2\x-santo-48-nero_extreme.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:03.7 20:02:44 1/1 p=50.0% 20:02:51 2/2 p=25.0% 20:02:58 3/3 p=12.5% 20:03:04 4/4 p=6.2% 20:03:11 5/5 p=3.1% 20:03:24 6/6 p=1.6% 20:03:37 7/7 p=0.8% 20:03:53 8/8 p=0.4% 20:04:00 9/9 p=0.2% 20:04:07 10/10 p< 0.1% 20:04:30 11/11 p< 0.1% 20:04:41 12/12 p< 0.1% 20:04:42 test finished ----------------------- Nero 6.3.0.3's AAC encoder, Audiophile, VBR (201 kbps) (medium): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/06/2004 20:09:05 A file: E:\test2\x-santo-48.wav B file: E:\test2\x-santo-48-nero_audiophile.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:03.7 20:09:20 1/1 p=50.0% 20:09:29 2/2 p=25.0% 20:09:42 3/3 p=12.5% 20:09:55 4/4 p=6.2% 20:10:22 5/5 p=3.1% 20:10:43 6/6 p=1.6% 20:10:54 7/7 p=0.8% 20:11:19 8/8 p=0.4% 20:11:30 9/9 p=0.2% 20:12:02 10/10 p< 0.1% 20:12:23 11/11 p< 0.1% 20:12:49 12/12 p< 0.1% 20:12:51 test finished ----------------------- MPC - mppenc 1.15r --quality 7 (185 kbps) (very hard): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/06/2004 20:14:22 A file: E:\test2\x-santo-48.wav B file: E:\test2\x-santo-48-mpc_insane.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:03.7 20:14:56 0/1 p=100.0% 20:15:24 1/2 p=75.0% 20:15:58 2/3 p=50.0% 20:16:27 2/4 p=68.8% 20:16:55 2/5 p=81.2% 20:17:18 3/6 p=65.6% 20:18:00 3/7 p=77.3% 20:18:26 4/8 p=63.7% 20:18:43 5/9 p=50.0% 20:19:05 6/10 p=37.7% 20:19:39 7/11 p=27.4% 20:20:02 8/12 p=19.4% 20:20:26 8/13 p=29.1% 20:20:41 9/14 p=21.2% 20:21:11 10/15 p=15.1% 20:21:34 10/16 p=22.7% 20:21:58 11/17 p=16.6% 20:22:19 12/18 p=11.9% 20:22:39 12/19 p=18.0% 20:22:52 13/20 p=13.2% 20:23:27 14/21 p=9.5% 20:23:39 15/22 p=6.7% 20:23:53 16/23 p=4.7% 20:24:04 17/24 p=3.2% 20:24:37 18/25 p=2.2% 20:24:53 19/26 p=1.4% 20:25:51 20/27 p=1.0% 20:26:57 21/28 p=0.6% 20:28:28 22/29 p=0.4% 20:31:15 22/30 p=0.8% 20:31:50 23/31 p=0.5% 20:32:29 23/32 p=1.0% 20:32:53 23/33 p=1.8% 20:33:13 test finished ----------------------- DualStream --mode extra --quality 0, file bitrate = 182.6 kbps (very easy): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/06/2004 20:46:47 A file: E:\test2\x-santo-48.wav B file: E:\test2\x-santo-48-ofs_extra_quality0.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:03.7 20:47:21 1/1 p=50.0% 20:47:32 2/2 p=25.0% 20:47:46 3/3 p=12.5% 20:48:24 4/4 p=6.2% 20:48:36 5/5 p=3.1% 20:48:50 6/6 p=1.6% 20:49:07 7/7 p=0.8% 20:49:41 8/8 p=0.4% 20:50:14 9/9 p=0.2% 20:50:22 10/10 p< 0.1% 20:50:31 11/11 p< 0.1% 20:50:38 12/12 p< 0.1% 20:50:39 test finished ----------------------- The APE file can be found here |
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Feb 7 2004, 23:29
Post
#4
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Musepack Project Coordinator Group: Developer Posts: 161 Joined: 24-June 02 Member No.: 2385 |
I have yet another sample of the same music style:
The track is "Sync In (original A.F.U. 016 mix)" by Silent Breed. There is smearing/pre-echo again, like in the above 2 samples. Here are the WinABX logs: Nero 6.3.0.3's AAC encoder, Extreme, VBR (253 kbps). Both Nero samples were kindly prepared by Case. (easy): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/07/2004 22:57:09 A file: E:\test3\sync-48.wav B file: E:\test3\sync-48-nero_extreme.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:13.6 22:57:43 1/1 p=50.0% 22:57:58 2/2 p=25.0% 22:58:10 3/3 p=12.5% 22:58:20 4/4 p=6.2% 22:58:34 5/5 p=3.1% 22:58:51 6/6 p=1.6% 22:59:20 7/7 p=0.8% 22:59:36 8/8 p=0.4% 22:59:53 9/9 p=0.2% 23:00:08 10/10 p< 0.1% 23:00:22 11/11 p< 0.1% 23:00:34 12/12 p< 0.1% 23:00:38 test finished -------------------------------- Nero 6.3.0.3's AAC encoder, Audiophile, VBR (301 kbps) (medium): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/07/2004 23:04:34 A file: E:\test3\sync-48.wav B file: E:\test3\sync-48-nero_audiophile.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:13.6 23:05:09 1/1 p=50.0% 23:05:41 2/2 p=25.0% 23:05:48 3/3 p=12.5% 23:06:02 4/4 p=6.2% 23:07:03 5/5 p=3.1% 23:07:13 6/6 p=1.6% 23:07:36 7/7 p=0.8% 23:08:24 8/8 p=0.4% 23:09:05 9/9 p=0.2% 23:09:27 10/10 p< 0.1% 23:10:02 11/11 p< 0.1% 23:12:01 12/12 p< 0.1% 23:12:03 test finished ------------------------------------ LAME 3.90.3 --alt-preset insane (very easy): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/07/2004 23:12:44 A file: E:\test3\sync-48.wav B file: E:\test3\sync-48-lame_api.wav 23:13:05 1/1 p=50.0% 23:13:09 2/2 p=25.0% 23:13:17 3/3 p=12.5% 23:13:24 4/4 p=6.2% 23:13:29 5/5 p=3.1% 23:13:36 6/6 p=1.6% 23:13:40 7/7 p=0.8% 23:13:43 8/8 p=0.4% 23:13:46 9/9 p=0.2% 23:13:52 10/10 p< 0.1% 23:13:56 11/11 p< 0.1% 23:14:00 12/12 p< 0.1% 23:14:03 test finished --------------------------------------- Oggenc GT3b2, Xiph.Org/Sjeng.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (GTune 3, beta 2), -q 8 (277 kbps) (hard): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/07/2004 23:22:33 A file: E:\test3\sync-48.wav B file: E:\test3\sync-48-vorbis_gt3b2_q8.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:13.6 23:22:46 1/1 p=50.0% 23:23:08 2/2 p=25.0% 23:23:47 3/3 p=12.5% 23:24:31 4/4 p=6.2% 23:24:56 5/5 p=3.1% 23:25:54 6/6 p=1.6% 23:27:11 7/7 p=0.8% 23:28:25 8/8 p=0.4% 23:31:02 9/9 p=0.2% 23:32:21 10/10 p< 0.1% 23:32:29 test finished ------------------------------------ MPC - mppenc 1.15r --quality 7 (281 kbps) (failure to ABX): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/07/2004 23:36:22 A file: E:\test3\sync-48.wav B file: E:\test3\sync-48-mpc_insane.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:13.6 23:37:42 0/1 p=100.0% 23:38:00 0/2 p=100.0% 23:39:39 1/3 p=87.5% 23:39:54 1/4 p=93.8% 23:40:11 2/5 p=81.2% 23:40:21 2/6 p=89.1% 23:40:46 2/7 p=93.8% 23:41:28 3/8 p=85.5% 23:41:47 3/9 p=91.0% 23:42:10 4/10 p=82.8% 23:42:25 5/11 p=72.6% 23:42:43 6/12 p=61.3% 23:42:57 7/13 p=50.0% 23:43:13 8/14 p=39.5% 23:43:25 9/15 p=30.4% 23:43:49 10/16 p=22.7% 23:44:05 10/17 p=31.5% 23:44:33 10/18 p=40.7% 23:45:09 11/19 p=32.4% 23:45:30 12/20 p=25.2% 23:45:45 13/21 p=19.2% 23:45:57 13/22 p=26.2% 23:46:10 14/23 p=20.2% 23:46:20 15/24 p=15.4% 23:46:32 16/25 p=11.5% 23:46:40 16/26 p=16.3% 23:46:55 17/27 p=12.4% 23:47:08 17/28 p=17.2% 23:47:24 18/29 p=13.2% 23:47:42 19/30 p=10.0% 23:47:59 20/31 p=7.5% 23:48:13 21/32 p=5.5% 23:48:38 22/33 p=4.0% 23:49:06 22/34 p=6.1% 23:49:18 22/35 p=8.8% 23:49:34 23/36 p=6.6% 23:49:45 23/37 p=9.4% 23:49:55 24/38 p=7.2% 23:50:03 24/39 p=10.0% 23:50:19 25/40 p=7.7% 23:50:29 26/41 p=5.9% 23:50:36 26/42 p=8.2% 23:50:48 26/43 p=11.1% 23:51:02 26/44 p=14.6% 23:51:21 27/45 p=11.6% 23:51:30 27/46 p=15.1% 23:51:41 28/47 p=12.1% 23:51:50 29/48 p=9.7% 23:51:58 29/49 p=12.6% 23:52:11 29/50 p=16.1% 23:52:28 29/51 p=20.1% 23:52:56 30/52 p=16.6% 23:53:13 31/53 p=13.6% 23:53:22 32/54 p=11.0% 23:53:30 32/55 p=14.0% 23:53:39 33/56 p=11.4% 23:53:50 34/57 p=9.2% 23:53:57 34/58 p=11.9% 23:54:01 test finished -------------------------------- DualStream --mode extra --quality 0, file bitrate = 277.3 kbps (easy): WinABX v0.41 test report 02/08/2004 00:04:05 A file: E:\test3\sync-48.wav B file: E:\test3\sync-48-ofs_extra_quality0.wav Start position 00:00.0, end position 00:13.6 00:04:33 1/1 p=50.0% 00:04:40 2/2 p=25.0% 00:04:47 3/3 p=12.5% 00:05:07 4/4 p=6.2% 00:05:15 5/5 p=3.1% 00:05:29 6/6 p=1.6% 00:05:41 7/7 p=0.8% 00:05:58 8/8 p=0.4% 00:06:19 9/9 p=0.2% 00:06:56 10/10 p< 0.1% 00:07:14 11/11 p< 0.1% 00:07:50 12/12 p< 0.1% 00:07:58 test finished ------------------------------------------------ APE file as a .torrent (BitTorrent client required): Sync In (original A.F.U. 016 mix) Edit: All the 3 files I torrent are also available on Ganymed's host (higher speed). Please visit this page and contribute more samples. This post has been edited by Seed: Aug 2 2004, 23:35 -------------------- And if Warhol's a genius, what am I? A speck of lint on the ***** of an alien
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