Good Grief: Soundings, Part Two – Five Things Not to Say to the Grieving
Jan 25th, 2012 by Ben Witherington
When a person suffers the devastating loss of a loved one, you should — however well-intentioned you might be — keep your mouth shut. Or at the very least, you should think long and hard before you say anything. Here are some of the things I recently heard that did not help, and frankly were not true.
1) “The Lord gives and the Lord takes away.” Not a saying from God, rather it’s from the poorly-informed Job, who was later forced to revise his opinion. As it happens, it was Satan who devastated Job’s life and family.
2) “You’ll get over it soon.” Wrong. I hope I never get over the loss of my daughter. I don’t want to forget her love, her smile, her joys, her sorrows, and so many millions of other things that formed the sum total of her life. I do not intend to get over it. I intend to get beyond it by the grace of God, but in no way forgetting what happened to her at the end of her life in this world. There will always be a Christy-shaped hole in my heart. Period.
3) “Sorry about your lost loved one.” This is well meant, of course, but bad theology. Christy is not lost. I know right where to find her. She is safe in the arms of Jesus. One of our good Christian friends shared this experience with me from her charismatic prayer time, this week: “The Holy Spirit came upon the prayer so mightily. My heart is not heavy, like it was before that prayer, and the witness the precious Holy Spirit gave us was that Christy truly has made it home. I know she is home, but the prayer made it very real to us.” Exactly right. She has gone before us, but she is not a lost loved one wandering in oblivion. She is a found loved one who has found her home in Christ.
4) “Well, at least you still have your son.” I am indeed very thankful our son and our Russian daughter are alive and well, but I don’t believe in compensatory theology. Having other children does not make the loss of Christy any less hard to bear. Each life is different, unique, special, and one life does not compensate for the loss of another. As John Donne says, “Any man’s death diminishes me, for I am a part of mankind.” All the more so when it’s a member of my own family.
5) “God will make up for this with a twofold blessing.” Again, I don’t think God is a practitioner of some sort of new math or compensatory calculus, running the universe. God has not been a naughty boy taking away my sweet-pea named Christy, and he has nothing to make up for. I certainly do believe God works everything together for good, for those who love him.
So I leave myself open to such working, trusting it will make me better, not bitter.
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Rather than say something, the best we can sometimes do is sit with our friends and loved ones in silent support – like Job’s friends did for many days. It would have been best for them to keep their mouths shut altogether!
I can definitely see how being told The Lord gives and the Lord takes away would sound painfully under-qualified and hollow. It is frankly inappropriate to tell someone that. On the other hand, I note that the great commentators on Job do not see 1:21 (in context and in its entirety) as bad theology but rather as a kind of high point early in the book. For example David Clines, vol. 1, p.38. But maybe I should have sat silently and only ventured to say: May God sustain you and your family at this time of grief.
Maybe not a good time to ask this but as you’ve quoted Job twice to “prove” your point… I would like to hear you about the narrator’s comments following Job’s words : “Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God” (1.22) and again “In all this Job did not sin with his lips” (2.10). How do you understand those words ? Thanks in advance and the peace of Christ be with you and your family.
Hi Christian: I think those surrounding comments make clear that despite Job’s inadequate understanding of God or the ways of the world, which is made all the more clear to him in the final theophany in the book when God basically rebukes him and he repents in dust and ashes, at this juncture in the book, God knows Job’s heart is right and knows he is not ‘blaming’ God for what has happened. Job’s problem is the same as the problem with some forms of Islamic theology— it has an inadequate understanding or appreciation of secondary causes in this universe. He attributes everything to God.
This is another terrific post. A tad convicting, but terrific.
I’ve always found Isaiah 57 verse one very comforting. God takes the righteous away to be spared from evil to come. The expression taken away is used twice in the passage, and is also used of Abraham being gathered to his people in Genesis 25:8
I should also say that the Hebrew expression “taken away” in Isaiah 57 is not the same Hebrew expression used by Job. Job uses Natan and lakaq, but Isaiah uses more polished Hebrew to describe being gathered to God in death.
Wise pastoral words.
You articulate what we believe and aspire to keep on believing.
May the Lord we trust be more than enough.
As a veteran pastor with over 25 years of experience in ministry, I’ve found that the number one “dumbest thing you can say at a funeral” is “So, how are you doing?”
Ben,
First of all, I pray for God’s shalom in your life as you grieve.
I am curious what you think of the ending of the book Job, in which God grants Job “twice as much as he had before.” How does that relate to your 4th and 5th points? Personally, I’ve always been bothered by the ending of Job because it always seemed like cold comfort in the face of such devastating loss. Is the author’s intent merely an effort at saying “all things work together…” or is the author trying to say something more specific?
I pray for you and your family and grieve with you.
Ben, may your family experience the peace of Christ during this terrible time.
I agree with so much of what you’re teaching in this series, but is it really fair to scold someone for saying, “Sorry about your lost loved one,” in an article that opens with “When a person suffers the devastating loss of a loved one?”
Clearly, the speaker did not mean to suggest that your child was wandering Limbo or some other such statement – if they did, then your critique stands. But as the vast majority of people who are going to offer sympathy to others are *not* well-polished professional writer/communicators, I don’t think it’s fair to hold them to such a standard as, “Saying ‘loss of a loved one’ is okay, but ‘lost loved one’ is insulting.” They’re synonymous statements for most English-speakers.
Thank you for this series. Cannot image what it must be like. You and your family are in my prayers.
Professor, I am sorry to hear of the suffering that your family is going through, and I pray that God will provide you healing and solace. I pray that each new morning will give you hope and sweeter anticipation of that coming morning when we will all be reunited with our loved ones whom God has called home before us.
Nevertheless, I have to admit I am troubled by this post and the previous one.
I am sensitive that this comment may be untimely when your grief is still so raw, but as you are a teacher in a position of authority, I think the question is important enough to bring up.
I am genuinely curious how you arrived at point #1. Doesn’t Satan approach God for permission to test Job? Couldn’t God have said no, and spared Job the suffering? The way it’s written here seems to imply that there are things that happen in the universe that are beyond God’s control, or some sort of constraints existing above and beyond God that he must submit to. (The old argument “he had to give us free will or we couldn’t love him genuinely” in particular seems to imply some sort of higher rule existing beyond God that limits his own freedom.) It seems like we’re throwing out God’s sovereignty because (in our vast wisdom) we’ve concluded that he couldn’t have any possible reason for allowing suffering.
Job’s awareness of God’s control over creation seems entirely accurate to me and consistent with the rest of Scripture. Job recognizes that Satan could not do anything if God did not permit it. He recognizes that God allowed him to suffer, and spends much of the book asking God to explain this decision, before God finally responds powerfully at the end that his ways are so far beyond our ways that we cannot even begin to grasp them.
Do we believe God knows and holds the future? (Absolutely.)
Do we believe God can raise the dead? (Absolutely.)
Do we believe God stop pain and suffering and death right now if he desired? (Absolutely.)
Could God have created a universe without pain and suffering and death? (Absolutely.)
If so, then the only conclusion is that God considers a universe where pain, suffering, and death exist to be superior in some way to a universe where those things did not exist. Perhaps because in a universe where evil did not exist, the character of the redeemed would be deficient in some way, having never developed good traits like hope, courage, forgiveness, patience, mercy, loyalty, etc. And God himself would have no cause to exercise things like patience, mercy (or even justice).
It seems like cold comfort to say, “God hurts with us, but his hands are tied, because our freedom trumps his freedom.” I think that was the conclusion of that rabbi some years back who wrote a book entitled something like “Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People?” I just don’t see any support in Scripture that God is powerless to stop suffering, and it seems to make God something more along the lines of the old Greek gods – human, but limited. I know my comfort is not God’s primary concern, but nevertheless, I find much more comfort in the midst of pain and loss by the Bible’s repeated assertions that, yes, God grieves with us, that he most certainly hates pain and death, but also that he is sovereign over it, that he allows them to happen and works even them for our good and his glory, and that there is coming a day when all wrongs will be righted, and all sorrows turned to joy.
I pray that even in this crucible of pain, you will see glimpses of hope and joy. Hab 3:17-18
You missed the biggest one. Nelson Muntz’s “Ha-ha”!
My wife and I are mourning the loss of our 4th pregnancy this week. Through these last two years, people have said some incredibly stupid and insensitive things to us… with the best of intentions. As a pastor, I take my pastoral care notes from Job, but a different part than mentioned above. When Job loses everything, his “friends” come to see him. The first thing they do is just sit with him. It’s when they start talking that things go south. Sometimes, people going through grief just need somebody to sit with them. May God’s peace be with you now, as always, and may there be people willing to just sit with you.
Thank you for your thoughful words. You and your family are in our prayers.
Sorry, I was guilty of no. 3 when I responded in sympathy. I knew that something felt strange about saying “your loss”, because I knew in my heart that your daughter is in no way a loss to you now or ever. It’s weird how we don’t know what to see in these matters and end up saying the wrong thing. I appreciate knowing what not to say in the future.
I lost my mom the same day your daughter died. Thank you, thank you for your wonderful words. They are truly speaking to my heart.
Wait! She is not lost…even I did it! I know she is in the arms of Jesus. Please keep sharing your insight. We all need it!
Pastor, my heart goes out to you, just as it does to the Witheringtons. I lost five pregnancies (one was a set of twins) before our daughter was born, and one after.
I often thought I’d write a booklet on “What NOT to Say in Times of Loss.” After miscarriages, many well-meaning friends would tell me that:
“God needed that baby more…” – which is not even theologically sound.
“There must have been something wrong with it…” – I would have gladly mothered a special needs child!
“At least you know you can get pregnant…” – that wasn’t an experiment I was carrying under my heart.”
“You can always have another baby…” – that wasn’t a puppy who was run over by a car.
I could go on, but you get my point. But I would say to you…and to the Witheringtons…I came to a place in my life where I had to say to my Father in Heaven, “I don’t like this, but I love You. I don’t understand this, but I trust You.”
I still have a place in my heart for each of the children that I didn’t hold in my arms. I will never forget them. But I will also thank Him for the experience of those lives, cut too short, because I know without a doubt they are with Him.
So is Christy. Thanks be to God.
It would seem to me, CG, that your problem with these posts is rooted in the Calvinistic notion that “God is in control” can only mean “Everything happens just as God wills and designs,” and that any other position is a threat to God’s sovereignty. You dismiss the notion that God’s will is thwarted in order to grant us free will as somehow implying that God is thereby subjected to something beyond God. This would be so if God’s will is thwarted by something other than His own choice. As this is not a necessary condition of the Arminian position, your critique falls short. Or perhaps you question the notion that God could choose to withhold his own will in order to give us our freedom? But wouldn’t that then subject God to an arbitrary rule (i.e., God can’t choose to withhold his will because he just can’t do that.)? Who or what made that rule and forces God to comply with it? Is not God thereby subject to something outside of and perhaps even greater than himself? Does that not render your argument guilty of the charge you lay at the feet of others?
You will argue that “God allows some bad things to happen” or “God can but chooses not to prevent some bad things from happening” is equivalent to “God causes bad things to happen, because he has a greater purpose.” Not in the world I live in. In the world where I live the argument that “It’s not truly evil; it only looks that way from our finite vantage point,” rings hollow. Granted, our vision is limited, but I think we can recognize evil for what it is, and your position can only render God the author of evil, a notion I categorically reject.
That things happen in this world outside of God’s direct control (again, only because he chooses to allow this) is starkly evident in the prayer Jesus taught us: “Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven.” Kind of redundant, don’t you think, if in fact God’s will is already always done on earth as it is in heaven? Maybe Jesus didn’t really mean it? Maybe he was teaching us that prayer, after all, is really an exercise in futility? Or maybe he was mistaken? No, I think Jesus taught his disciples to pray for God’s will to be accomplished on earth just as it is in heaven because in fact, God’s will is not accomplished on earth just as it is in heaven, at least for now. You say that God could make a universe sans pain, suffering, and death, but that he somehow must have deemed the universe we have superior. I argue that he did make such a universe, put us in it, and gave us free will, which subsequently we abused, enter sin, broken world, and all the rest. After all, if the current world were superior, why would he bother with redeeming it?
In the end, you can provide just as many Scriptural bullet points for predestination as I can for free will. Both have Scriptural merit, so we must determine which provides the best account of the whole of Scripture and the heart of God. One fights tooth and nail for God’s sovereignty (why does an all-sovereign God need a champion?), while the other refuses to allow anything that would besmirch God’s love and grace. One makes God the author of evil (even if for some supposed greater good), while the other views evil, sin, and death as his very antithesis. One says God must control everything or he is not God, while the other says that God’s greatest act of control is to lovingly lay his sovereignty aside to allow our freedom. Neither one accounts for everything, because ultimately if we can fully understand it, it isn’t God. You have chosen the former view of God, while I have chosen the latter. And with the rise of neo-Calvinism in our day and time I am thankful for teachers in positions of authority like Dr. Witherington who shout from the mountain tops that there is faithful alternative. Of course, if you’re right, this is ultimately all an exercise in futility anyway, isn’t it?
Ben, you are such a blessing to so many. Praying that the Lord’s peace be felt in your these comings days and months. Regarding some of the posts below. Run, don’t walk, to the works of Greg Boyd, who understands, as does Ben, that we are living in a universe and world at war. We cannot comprehend the multitude of ambiguities that surround us in tragedy each day. Rightly dividing the word of truth–understanding God’s Sovereignty while comprehending the very real presence of His enemies at work–this is delicate work. If that weren’t true, there would not be churches in disagreement. God is light and in Him is no darkness at ALL…..
They, do need friends; Now and later! (more later) Just a hug or a smile; Just let them know that you are there; People hurt in different ways; Some want company while other want to be alone; You have to know which of these your friend or family want; Some times it is both: (been there done that and have the tee shirt to prove it!
It seems the passage speaks for itself: “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I will depart. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised.” In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.
Job was not misinformed. In my times of suffering it does not help one bit to say “God had nothing to do with this; the devil did this. The Lord gives, but the devil takes away.” The passage is quite clear that God could have just as easily stopped the devil, so Job understood correctly that the buck stops with God.
When someone says “sorry you’ve lost your child” do you honestly think they are saying “sorry you have no idea where your child is”? Can we not cut people just a little slack? I would think they are saying “I’m sorry your child is no longer with you.” Do you really think they are disagreeing with you about your child being with Jesus?
It troubles me that in this post our greatest source of hope and comfort, the bible, is trumped by “the witness of the Spirit”. You have carefully parsed the words of people who love you and grieve with you while ignoring their intentions. It doesn’t seem you were as careful as you usually are when you write.
May I say unless you have lost: You donot understand! You just think that you do! After it happens to you; You really can realise that which your friends have gone through! As it says, Your heart may be in the right place: but your mouth can hurt! We as christians should watch what we say to others all the time; Not just at a death:
“Having other children does not make the LOSS of Christy any less hard to bear.”
I’m not trying to be ugly in your time of grief, but do you see what I mean by parsing the words of others and then saying the very same thing yourself?
Billy it looks to me like you are not a christain; Hope and pray for you; and I also see that you like to show how smart you are! Well son; It alls boils down to the Heart: And the Blood of Jesus! He didnot promise us a Rose Garden; God said” He will carry us through!” In this World we all are Human; Make mistakes, do get hurt, have to watch things that are not right; But all is said and done; We are trying to get to heaven! Yes, we will see our Love ones on the other side; As the bible states; If it were not so , I would not have told you!” I go to prepare a place for YOU!
Meme, I have no idea how to connect your response to my statements. I’m not sure how one’s intellect can be taken as either a prerequisite or a preclusion from the heart of faith. I’m not sure how I illicit notions of rose garden promises in this life. I’m not sure why I’m seemingly accused of denying the existence of heaven. I’m sorry I don’t measure up in your estimation to the faith of Christ. You might be right. Let us both be thankful that decision isn’t ours to make.
Meme, your words towards Billy are entirely uncalled for. I don’t see how you could have possibly read what he wrote and arrived at what you said. I don’t agree with Billy’s conclusions regarding the sovereignty of God, but I have every reason to believe that he is my brother in Christ and we will enjoy heaven together with all of our questions answered.
I’m glad you brought it up first. I think I’m said more than once, “I’m very sorry for your loss.” This is no way implied that the person who died was lost. I suppose that’s how most people say it and mean it.
But this is a good list… and a good reminder. Even as someone who has lost loved ones, I can still make insensitive mistakes when trying to comfort the grieving.
Thank you for your comments. I have gone to giving a long hug and just the words “I love you” or “I am praying for you”.
Between the poor theology in such statements and the silence that comes from believers who just do not know what to say or do so they do and say nothing…I found these last three years after our Dawn died to be hard because of the things said and those who just left us to our thoughts to be hard. Then unhelpful thing 6 might be…call us if you need something…rather than being a person led by the Spirit and understanding we do not have the energy to ask…if one sees something that needs done and is just a helpful, prayerful person in the Body of Christ that can be so encouraging. Certainly checking it out with us as they reach out to help or do something but assuming that because we did not call to ask that we are fine or need nothing has been a great wrestling point. But Great is God’s faithfulness in seeing us through even with these ongoing holes within left by the death of our precious ones. Blessings in the house.
I like the advice to keep one’s mouth shut. The late Joe Bayly, former editor of the now defunct Evangelical magazine, Eternity, writes about losing a son. A well-meaning friend visited the funeral home and talked non-stop, trying to comfort Joe and his wife. Joe wrote that they were mightily relieved when that well-meaning friend left. Another came, expressed brief condolences, and then sat in the room quietly for a long time. The Bailys were saddened when he finally had to go.
As for your saying, “As it happens, it was Satan who devastated Job’s life and family,” I believe it actually was a figure originally known as Hasatan — and not what we think of as Satan. And when Hasatan, a lieutenant of God’s, argued that Job was pious only because he had been so blessed by God with health, possessions and family in life and that if they were taken away he would recant, God said, ““Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
So — even though that part of the tale of Job is believed to have been added later, to “make sense” of what happened to Job in the basic story — it seems that God does give and God takes away.
Furthermore, at the end of the story as we have it in today’s Bible, in Job 42:10, it is said, “After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD restored his fortunes and gave him twice as much as he had before.” So God made up for it with a twofold blessing.
I would note, though, that both of these parts of the story were added (scholars believe) by later scribes trying to make sense of why what happened in Job
‘s life would have happened, why God would let awful things happen to someone “good,” (heavens forfend!) They were doing what some people try and do in their attempt at comforting someone who is grieving.
A whole new take on this is found in Peter Rollins’ book, “Insurrection,” which explores what we can learn in our faith about death from Jesus’ own death — and a new way at looking at all the deaths, small and actual, in our lives.
Hi friends thanks for your comments. Just a small point— I am not critiquing anyone for saying sorry for your loss. As an English major I stand by the point that the word lost and the word loss are two different thing. The latter refers to Christy’s passing and its effect on me— yes indeed I have experience a loss. The form refers to the condition of Christy– no, she is not lost. Hope you see the difference. One is referential of her circumstances the other of mine. Perfectly fine to say sorry for your (i.e. my) loss.
Hi friends thanks for your comments. Just a small point— I am not critiquing anyone for saying sorry for your loss. As an English major I stand by the point that the word lost and the word loss are two different thing. The latter refers to Christy’s passing and its effect on me— yes indeed I have experience a loss. The form refers to the condition of Christy– no, she is not lost. Hope you see the difference. One is referential of her circumstances the other of mine. Perfectly fine to say sorry for your (i.e. my) loss.
Hi friends thanks for your comments. Just a small point— I am not critiquing anyone for saying sorry for your loss. As an English major I stand by the point that the word lost and the word loss are two different thing. The latter refers to Christy’s passing and its effect on me— yes indeed I have experience a loss. The form refers to the condition of Christy– no, she is not lost. Hope you see the difference. One is referential of her circumstances the other of mine. Perfectly fine to say sorry for your (i.e. my) loss.
Hi friends thanks for your comments. Just a small point— I am not critiquing anyone for saying sorry for your loss. As an English major I stand by the point that the word lost and the word loss are two different thing. The latter refers to Christy’s passing and its effect on me— yes indeed I have experience a loss. The form refers to the condition of Christy– no, she is not lost. Hope you see the difference. One is referential of her circumstances the other of mine. Perfectly fine to say sorry for your (i.e. my) loss.
Dr. Witherington,
Thank you for sharing your heart and God’s grace through your blog. I recently suffered a miscarriage, which is not even in the same ball park as what you are going through, but it has left me deeply wounded and weary–and your words about suffering and God’s goodness from this post (and yesterday’s) have brought much comfort to my heart. The words of of 2 Corinthians 1:3-4 come to mind: “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God.” Thank you for sharing the comfort that God has given to you. You were a blessing to me in seminary, as a professor who taught me to long for holiness and you continue to be a blessing to me through your words of wisdom and faith. You and your family are daily in my prayers.
Dr. Witherington,
Thank you for sharing your heart and God’s grace through your blog. I recently suffered a miscarriage, which is not even in the same ball park as what you are going through, but it has left me deeply wounded and weary–and your words about suffering and God’s goodness from this post (and yesterday’s) have brought much comfort to my heart. The words of of 2 Corinthians 1:3-4 come to mind: “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God.” Thank you for sharing the comfort that God has given to you. You were a blessing to me in seminary, as a professor who taught me to long for holiness and you continue to be a blessing to me through your words of wisdom and faith. You and your family are daily in my prayers.
I’
Well said! Sure is interesting to note how quickly “Christian friends” take up the mantle of condemnation. If the Truth is true it does not and never has needed defenders – what the Truth needs is those who will adhere to it, not try to defend their notion of it.
Ben, I have shared your post from yesterday with two people already who have friends who have lost children recently. Your sharing in this way is bringing comfort to others and bringing truth about God to those grieving. Thank you for pressing on and doing this.
Ben, I have shared your post from yesterday with two people already who have friends who have lost children recently. Your sharing in this way is bringing comfort to others and bringing truth about God to those grieving. Thank you for pressing on and doing this.
My mom died a little over a year ago. Some of my own relatives said, “I guess God needed her more than we did.” I know they meant well, but I still recoil at the thought of this very bad theology.
Ben,
Thank you so much for your series on Grieving and the sharing of your own thoughts, memories and pain. I was sorry to read of the death of your beautiful daughter, how very sad and tragic. My heart goes out to you and your family, and am remembering you all in my prayers.
Very sorry to hear about your daughter. There have been numerous deaths in my extended family, the vast majority by suicide. The pain doesn’t go away, though the sting of it lessens over time. You just have to keep moving.
George MacDonald’s “Unspoken Sermons” might be a source of encouragement during this time. He lost several children to death himself, and he writes with a wisdom and maturity that’s hard to describe. His conviction that God loves his children has caused me to see God differently.
–Derek
Very sorry to hear about your daughter. There have been numerous deaths in my extended family, the vast majority by suicide. The pain doesn’t go away, though the sting of it lessens over time. You just have to keep moving.
George MacDonald’s “Unspok