In My Opinion
For many years now there has been an issue in the British flute world that has been allowed to continue unchecked and I feel that is time that someone with a contrasting view voices an opinion.
In my 35 years or thereabouts at the top end of the orchestral world in the UK I have tried to avoid confrontation, and it is only after a long period of thought that I have finally decided to share my opinions. I certainly have no intention to offend anyone, but equally, the endless highly disturbing stories that I hear back from both professionals and students make me realise that silence is no longer an option.
I refer to the tuning of flutes and the ‘war’ that appears to be waged by certain distinguished players and teachers in the UK against manufacturers they have either an axe to grind with or quite simply, no time for.
I am full of admiration for people who take a scientific approach to the whole process of putting a flute together. There are very logical and valid reasons for trying to make the instrument as close to perfection as possible, and the dedication shown by the few in attempting to evolve the flute further is to be applauded.
One could now have lengthy discussions about precise measurements and distances. However, like many, I am not a scientist, and as such not qualified to make absolute comment on the merits of one flute scale over another, other than through my observations of what I personally experience as a performer. It has also to be noted that advances in flute design and making over the past four decades or so has been significant to the extent that many flute makers across the globe are now making outstandingly good instruments.
However, it should be remembered that in the end, there is no such thing as an in tune flute. What finally comes out of the instrument is the responsibility of the performer, not the instrument itself. It is up to the musician to use his or her intelligence and ears to play the instrument that they have in their hands to the best of their ability. This includes having a precise concept of pitch and the relative distances between notes. Whilst the correct positioning and size of the holes on the flute are of obvious importance, there are many more factors beyond the construction of the instrument that need to be considered in the art of playing in tune.
A key area that seems to be ignored in this discussion is individual physiology. This has a colossal impact on the character and pitch of the sound that comes out of the flute/flute player. Fact: we are all constructed differently, therefore, we will blow flutes in very varying ways. What might well work for me is not necessarily going to work for someone else. Yes, there are starting blocks to work from, but these won’t always lead to the same conclusions.
As an example, I find it difficult to articulate far forward (recommended by many well-known teachers), as I have a narrow mouth and a wide tongue. For people with a more ‘standard’ mouth, I will advise them to articulate further forward initially, but it doesn’t work for me. A further problem is that language also plays a significant part in our approach to articulation (and indeed sound), but this is probably best left for another time!
In other words there are so many variables that go into the creation of a note on the flute. The scale of the instrument is one of these, but by no means is it the ‘be all and end all’.
After I left music college I decided that one day I would like to own a Louis Lot flute. A piece of history and, when re-tuned to a more modern scale, a very fine instrument. However, I wanted it to be a relatively early one and therefore a seamed head and body. Finally one turned up and whilst the only note that worked on it was an open C sharp (in the middle of the stave), the sound quality was good enough for me to decide to take the plunge, buy it and then have it adjusted by Nick Crabbe. Nick worked on the flute for a long time, but I wasn’t in a particular hurry and in fact he made an excellent job of the re-tuning.
Sadly, my colleagues in the LSO were not instant fans. Louis Lots have a very distinctive sound and at that moment in time, they had been used to my old flute (Arista number 2), which was a fine flute that had a sound more in keeping with a good blend in a woodwind section. The Louis Lot had a wider, richer sound and as such was going to be a better solo instrument. So I didn’t play it very much in the orchestra and it spent most of its time in a cupboard.
One day I bumped into a very well-known British flute player and he enquired about my Louis Lot. I had it with me and he asked to try it. He blew it the way that only this gentleman in question can blow a flute and pronounced the second octave (middle of the stave) C sharp too sharp. I had not noticed this at all, but he then insisted on taking the flute apart and adding some plasticine to the offending hole to flatten the note.
For a few years the flute went back into the cupboard and was virtually forgotten about.
Some time later though, another professional flute player who lives locally and who plays on Louis Lot flutes contacted me and asked if she could borrow my LL flute for awhile, as hers was going in for a major service. I was delighted that this wonderful flute would be played again. As it turned out, her flute took longer to fix and she ended up playing my flute for about three months.
When she brought it back to me she said: “Thanks so much Paul for the use of your Louis Lot. It really is a great flute.”
However, there was then a bit of a pause.
“The only thing about it that I thought was a bit strange though, is that the middle octave C sharp is very flat!”
I tried it and sure enough the C sharp was incredibly flat. The events of several years prior to this moment then slowly came back to me.
Needless to say, I dismantled the left hand mechanism of the flute and stripped out the offending plasticine. The flute is now very much more in tune for me again!
I have now played on Powell hand made flutes for close on fourteen years and am exceedingly happy with the two instruments that I regularly work with. Whilst there are certain notes (many of them in common with all makes of flute) that require more attention than others for accurate intonation, there is nothing in the three main octaves of the instrument that makes life overly difficult.
Contrary to this, there is one make of Japanese flute (extremely well made) that is played very successfully by many professional players. I personally have problems with this make of flute, particularly in the very bottom end of the instrument, where I find it difficult to get certain notes up to pitch.
From my orchestral experiences, I have found it much easier to physically adapt my playing to bring potentially sharp top octave notes down than to lift up flat bottom octave notes. The latter becomes even more relevant in a p dynamic. Therefore it makes life a lot less stressful in those Shostakovich symphonies with flute solos in a p dynamic that travel down to the last notes on the instrument to play on a flute that is not flat at the low end. Other composers where a flat bottom octave can make life difficult: Mahler, Stravinsky, Ravel, Debussy etc…..
When looking for a new instrument I would urge all potential purchasers to try out all of the mainstream makes of flute. Whilst I currently play on a Powell flute, all I can say is that this make works for me and I am thoroughly happy with the instruments I possess. I am happy for people to see my enthusiasm for these flutes, but I would never tell anyone that this is the make for them. I have also tried amazingly interesting flutes from other well known manufacturers, both American and Japanese and would urge you to spend some time finding your way around these instruments. As I have made very clear above, we are all different and are looking for a wide range of varying possibilities out of the instruments we play.
If it is a handmade instrument that you are looking for, ask to take it away for a few days, play it to friends with ears you trust and spend some time carefully going through the instrument with a tuning machine. In this way, you will discover the idiosyncracies of the instrument and be able to reach a logical conclusion as to whether or not the instrument is right for you and your physical make up.
Finally, be guided by your instincts. The world would be a much poorer place if we all ended up with identikit flutes!
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Is there something I am missing? — There is no doubt that all flute players owe Wibb, Eldred Spell, and Albert Cooper a huge debt for everything they have already done to improve the instrument — but if Wibb feels he can improve the scale still further — respect for his previous contributions should surely tell us he is certainly worth listening to, and that he should go for it, whether we like the final result or not.
If people prefer playing on Powells, untuned Haynes’ or a toilet roll with Cooper key work and a Louis Lot button, who is stopping them?
I would agree that talk about comparative scales is not something that students should be encouraged to get involved in – getting a good flute and practicing on it is far more important, but it almost seems like
people are angry with Wibb for being a huge character? My angle is that in these days of robotic motor racing drivers, faceless footballers, Simon Cowell and poodle artists, the great characters are a dying breed. We should appreciate them before they become extinct!
But here is the thing I really don’t get; WIBB plays open G sharp which was how the flute was originally designed and which is without doubt, a far better system both acoustically and mechanically – at least I have never heard a good defense of the closed G sharp system. So why do we all play closed G sharp when we know open G sharp is better from every point of view? Why? because we all just follow everyone else, and are too lazy to change—all a bit pathetic really, and I include myself in that.
I guess from Wibb’s perspective, all closed G shapers are probably illogical, and must make him wonder if any of us are serious about improving the flute at all…
are these scales from boehm on based on equal temperament? which is the most out of tune temperament?
if yes it means that for example the hole for d sharp/e flat shoul be right in the middle of these two notes so that you can play with the minor adjustment 3 pitches :d sharp,e flat and the equally tempered note…
After listening to recordings and hearing live the above players and some of those who posted their comments below, I can see why there are 2 camps. It is very obvious that those in the camp who don’t care so much about the scale sound not quite as well in tune as the others. Most of the people don’t care so much about being in tune, and often even cannot tell if the player is in tune. Just go and hear some international competitions, and the jury concerts.
The bottom line is, you can always adjust to a certain point, but I think you should absolutely make your life easier and get an instrument well in tune. And about the plasticine – it’s a personal thing. Oboe and clarinet players add some all the time, and I wouldn’t think it’s a wrong thing to do so with the flute.
How interesting that you can post such a personal comment and yet not have the courtesy to leave your name. I wonder why?
This is not about personalities it is about common sense………Clare Southworth
Why two camps monsieur anonymous? No-one is questioning ze relevance of intonation or ze need to play in tune. It is offensive in ze extreme to suggest zat people such as Mr Davies and myself, and others who evidently ‘old a different opinion on zis subject, simply dont care enough about intonation.
It is so refreshing to hear some common sense on this whole issue of flute scales. I have played on many different makes of flute over the years and have enjoyed the challenge of playing them “in tune”.
It would be a very dull world indeed if we all played on the same flutes. But, even if we did all conform to this so called ‘in-tune new flute” players would continue to play in their own individual way, with all the variation of head-joint and blowing positions. Couple that with all the physical differences that each player has and varying levels of technique and we would still be in a situation where complaints about intonation would occur. In my experience I have found that students’ aural abilities benefit hugely from working on intonation, becoming aware of the peculiarities of their instruments and learning how to play in tune. It is exactly the same technique that is required to play with dynamics and colours. If I hear sharp C#’s then I don’t blame the flute, but instruct the player. Aural awareness is crucial and an integral part of musical training. I recently gave a series of lecture recitals on the history of the flute and played my baroque flute, wooden Rudall Carte, silver Boehm system and my platinum Miyazawa. It certainly gave my ears a clean-out and helped make me even more aware of pitch irregularities. And it was fun! So I urge those of you who are thinking about buying new flutes, to try as many different makes as possible and find the one that is right for YOU. Learn to play it to your best ability, keep your ears open and practice the techniques needed to be flexible and play not only in-tune, but with the whole range of colours and dynamics.All best – Clare Southworth
Two penn’outh from an amateur. In many aspects of life there are things that are held to be absolute, but which are in fact about dogma and fashion.
I note for example that the sound quality of flutes is currently held to rise in proportion with the value of the metal they are made from. (Gold better, platinum best?) I am reminded of a story told by Albert Cooper, of how he melted some pots and pans and made a head joint from it, explaining to the world how he had found this wonderful alloy that made superb head joints. And the world was very impressed.
I am sure that we are all in favour of flutes that play as in-tune as possible with minimum intervention on the part of the player, be this in the form of changes of lip positioning, special fingerings or anything else. But in my view, Sir James puts it well when he states: “When it comes down to it, the intonation of the flute depends very
largely on the ability of the player and not the cut of the head or the
scale of the flute.” And in his book on the flute: “If you pay the top dollar, you get a good flute”.
The current range of flutes on the market might perhaps, in time, be rendered obsolete by the arrival of a new scale. But that doesn’t mean that today’s flutes are any worse than they were last year.
Dear Paul,
Dear Paul,
Thank you for posting this most interesting letter on the chat. I am sure there will be a lot of interest in it.
I do admire your courage in speaking out against this issue in the English flute world. You are quite right in saying that it has been allowed to go on too long unchecked.
I never did anything about it as I count Trevor Wye and William Bennet to be friends and one is never happy to oppose ones friends. However, like yourself I think the time has come when we should all air our opinions.
Last year I met William at his home and showed him some flutes, Nagahara and Haynes gold and a Galway spirit flute from Conn Selmer.
Wibb started in right away on the C sharp issue as I expected him to do. Wit William it is not an issue but some sort of phobia. He came to the conclusion that the Nagahara was the best. This was after blowing all flutes in a short time. This is something that I disagree with right away. I think the best way to try a flute is to play a Bach sonata or a work which is the equivalent in length and difficulty. The reason for this is that you can access how the flute works when you embouchure is under stress and fatigued.This is how I try a flute.
Let me tell you about my journey through the flute scales of the world. The first thing to bring to your attention is that I never heard about scales until I got my first Cooper flute in 1961/2 when I was playing in the opera in London. Until then I played a flute made by E. J. Albert followed by a Haynes. It was with this Haynes I first became aware of the bad intonation of the instrument. Upon reflection it is no wonder it was out of tune as it was not made by any scientific standard. I believe in those days a local flute player from the Boston Symphony, Mr. Papasakis would advise on the tuning and he was also no scientist. In the late Fifties I was happy to have a flute that worked and one I did not have to take to the the local repair man, a notorious Mr. Morley of London.I did manage to play this instrument in tune with the help of some alternate fingerings for the third octave.
William Bennett came to the rescue and advised me to gt a Cooper flute which I did. I got an in line open hole ;ow B silver flute and used the headjoing from my Haynes. I sold the Haynes to a friend and his daughter still plays it .
This New Cooper gave me a new lease of life on the flute. I no longer had to tinnk of special fingerings for F and A flat 3 and for the first time managed to play in tune modifying the already good scale of Albert cooper with my embouchure.
In the Berlin Philharmonic I had two flutes made specially for the job, one in silver and the other in gold, both made by Mr. Cooper. Even with these instruments I had trouble adjusting to the pitch. After a week or two I got used to the new pitch and could play very well in tune within the orchestra. During my time in the BPO. I did play in England, the land of 440 and I managed very well. In fact I made my first two or three solo recordings with my Cooper 445 and it worked very well. I was beginning to wonder what all the fuss was about. I was convinced that a higher pitched flute worked batter with the head pulled out than pushing in with a lower pitched flute to reach a higher pitch. This would explain the erratic pitch problems in the BPO flute section where one player played on an old covered hole Haynes and another on a Muramatsu. Herbert von Karajan called me into his office once to ask me why I could play better in tune than the others. I told him about the Boehm Schema and he understood it straight away.
I have written about this on my chat before Paul, but wanted to run it by you so you would know of my experiences in the top orchestras I played in.
Now to the present situation where Bennet, Wye and Spell are damming us all for not playing the instrument of their choice and the scale of their choice.I personally think that they do not have to right to foist their opinion on the rest of us who have been playing very well on Muramatsu, Nagahara, Powell, Brannen Burkhardt Pearl and a slew of other very good flutes for the past few decades. These top end makers have served us very well in meeting our demands.
When it comes down to it the intonation of the flute depends very largely on the ability of the player and not the cut of the head or the scale of the flute.
I am currently staying with Sam Coles who is the solo flute in the Philharmonia orchestra of London.
This morning after reading your letter we made an experiment with a flute and a tuner.
We both played the A on the same flute and I was flatter than Sam on the tuning machine. We did this with two different flutes a Brannen and a Nagahara. When we played on a couple of Nagahara flutes Sam’s intonation was spot on and he was playing on an unfamiliar flute. It was the same when I played on his Brannen. I became very quickly accustomed to the instrument and felt very much at home on Sam’s instruments.
We concluded that we could not play the same flute with the head joint in the same place. Therefore the position of the C sharp hole in relation to the head joint was different for each of us. In my case shorter and in Sam’s longer but the intonation was spot on no matter which flute we played.
Where is this all taking us? Does Bennett Wye and Spell (BWS) expect the world to change and start using their scale in the hope of improved intonation? I dont think this is going to happen. The day that Muramatsu or any of the big flute firms change for the BWS scale will be the beginning of a brave new world. They also have an aversion to gold as a material for flutes and here we have another issue. I think I could safely say that the majority of first chair orchestra players play on gold and it cannot be for the look only. If they were all in awe of the playing of BWS they would all be playing Altus silver flutes and using the spare cash for better cars or houses.
No siree. We all play gold because it is a better material otherwise we would all be playing a silver flute and not all made by Altus.
Paul, your idea of studying relative pitch is worth more than the eternal search for the “perfect scale”.
I think we have opened a real can of worms here and it is time it was opened.
I look forward to all your comments.
Best wishes,
Sir James.
Excellent Stuff! I find many students just play with the head joint turned in too far (for my taste anyway!) and this causes many of their tuning problems. I also know a maker (of repro simple system flutes) whose flutes I can’t play because he does the tuning himself and has the same “problem”! Pity (for me anyway)! However, you lose so much power and flexibility if the blowing angle is too deep. Anyone know anything about whether there are trends/fashions in these flute playing styles? Would be very interesting if someone did some research, though I imagine that the limited historical descriptions of the finer details of flute playing would not be overly helpful. Photography should have changed that these days.
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Although I may be flying off on a tangent here, several points of this discussion interest me greatly.
TonyF points out “perception of pitch is not uniquely that of however many cycles per second”. From my reading of acoustics this is absolutely correct, or as we were taught: “matching pitch is not the same as matching frequency”. Overall pitch is determined by a sound’s harmonic structure. When the brain processes this harmonic structure it infers the fundamental frequency. If I am not mistaken, this is how transistor radios work. This inferred fundamental might not match that of a mechanical tuner. This is why some players will sound out of tune even though a lie detector (tuner) will say they are in tune, and some players will sound in tune even though the tuner will say otherwise. The relevance for this discussion, as I see it, is that each flutist’s sound has a unique harmonic structure, determining its overall pitch. Therefore, it seems impossible to create a scale with a hole in place for a perfect fundamental frequency for each note for each player.
When it comes to the top-end flutes, are we not speaking of only a few cents here, a few cents there? And in relation to what, an equal tempered scale? Can anyone actually hear to the twelfth root of two? Would the C# in question be played same frequency in an A-major scale, an F#-major scale, or as a Db in a Bb-minor scale?
That said, I am very grateful to those who have developed the flute scale over the centuries, and am grateful we have the technology to niggle over a few cents.
Article Number 2 from Robert Winn
Flute Scales and the problems of outonation .
Imagine a piece of A4 photcopy paper , it is approximately 0.1mm thick ………. That’s a tenth of a millimeter and if you look at it side on its pretty thin . Whilst you are imagining this , I will carry on my story .
You are probably wondering what makes me think that I have any right to pontificate here about matters of such gravity as intonation and flute scales .
I spent many happy hours discussing flute scales with Albert Cooper and William Bennett.
For 6 years , I studied headjoint building and many other aspects of flute manufacture at the Flute Makers Guild in London under the tutelage of Harry Sealey, the master flute maker
Two major international instrument companies contracted me as a design consultant , for a total of 6 years .
.
I have rebuilt and renovated some 35 flutes of various vintages and makers and tuned others and constructed many headjoints over the last twenty years, with colleagues who specialised in padding and fine metal work……………..
oh and by the way I was solo flutist with the RPO and many major orchestras for 20 years and am now professor of flute in Köln Germany . www.robertwinn.de
All of which means that I am no stranger to screws !!
So now back to the point at issue …………. Here is a comparison of two sets of numbers
43.2 43.5