News You Could Do Without
by Mike Masnick
Wed, Oct 31st 2007 11:34pm
Just as Facebook is looking to launch its own behavioral advertising network, AOL and some privacy groups are pitching the idea of a "Do Not Track" list that would effectively let people opt-out...
Filed Under:
advertising, behavioral targeting, do not track
Companies:
aol
Permalink.
Do Not Track List Won't Make Advertisers Happy
from the resistance-is-futile dept
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- This Post Is Not About GamerGate
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Reader Comments (rss)
(Flattened / Threaded)
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Max Powers at ConsumerFight.com, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 2:56am
Hit the Target
I agree that the average consumer has no idea what is going on as far as advertisers tracking them.
If the advertisers are not careful, they will wind up in Washington defending why their system is helpful for the consumer. The "do not track" registry could well become the next privacy hot topic, regardless that the consumers are oblivious to the whole situation.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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matt, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 3:58am
the real truth of the matter
the real truth of the matter, is that nobody wants any ads. Relevant or not. I do not want to unwilling be part of someone else's revenue service unless I choose to be.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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* Miss Universe, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 4:01am
Just Don't Use The Damn Web
This effort will not get very far. Since a user is voluntarily entering someone else's property, they are allowing their IPs to be tracked.
No one can tell you what code to NOT put on your private site - as long as it is not malware or trojans or viruses.
In other words, your site is your property, you can add whatever code you wish to ad.
People are entering it out of their own self interest - either for news, resources, knowledge or entertainment.
In an extreme case - if this does get to court - the worst possible scenario would be to have site owners put an 'IP being tracked for advertising relevancy with cookies' disclaimer on some high profile sites that share info.
But the truly concerned, already know now to delete cookies or use proxies if they MUST visit.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Evil Mike, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 4:06amWon't happen.
You'd need a server system equivalent to the great firewall of china to begin making a dent in this "problem."
Simply in pure numbers of participants and logistics; the cost of putting such in place would be enormous, and it would merely be another waste of our tax dollars for little or no effective return on said investment.
In addition to the above, how can one realistically target/not target specific persons when your only real identifier is ip address--which for most of us varies greatly from one logon to the next.
If you don't want ads, download firefox and learn to concisely use the adblock extension.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Anonymous Coward, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 4:10amtargeted advertising is good business however that said it is also a violation of privacy, divisive and emotionally charged with gender, age race and religious profiling. In practice it is unconstitutional and a egregious violation of decency.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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The Swiss Cheese Monster, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 4:20am
Re: the real truth of the matter
The real truth is, some people don't mind ads.... Somebody has to pay for all this stuff that I consume for free.
When they start covering things up, I don't like them. But I don't mind most advertising systems.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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dennis, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 4:50am
do not track list
Like most consumers we are so inundated with advertising that i ignore 99.9% of what advertisements make it through my firewall/spam blocker. Even in the newspaper i ignore the ads. So track away it really means nothing in the end if it's ignored.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Mack, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 4:59am
Re: won't happen
You'd need a server system equivalent to the great firewall of china to begin making a dent in this
Nope, just an agreement by advertisers to honor a "do not track" cookie that you can get from a known reliable site (say, donottrack.gov).
The real difference between this and 'do not call' is geography. No one outside the US (or outside countries with a treaty covering this) is going to pay any attention to a law, a list, or a cookie.
And soon enough, that would be... everybody. Loophole![ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Danny, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 5:40am
A fine balance
Some people don't mind if advertisers know what chapter of the book they are currently reading.
Some people would prefer advertisers only know what types of books they are into.
And there are still others that don't want advertisers to even know they read books.
The fact that people are divided that way (and possibly more) is only going to lead to legal war between advertisers, developers of ad blocking software, and lawyers with internet users having no say in the matter but having to shoulder the burden of the outcomes. Sorry for the rant but my point is that as long there are different perceptions of when data collection gets too close for comfort any "Do Not _____" list will be almost useless.
And like comment #8 says about loopholes is a valid point to note. I'll bet there are advertisers out there already brainstorming about possible loopholes.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Rut, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 6:44am
What of grocery store "savings cards"?
I wonder if this rule would apply to Albertson's, Safeway, Smith's--insert your local grocery store here--that invite its customers to sign up for "loyalty cards", and then track items purchased with said card.
I'm not sure how this data is currently used, but somebody out there knows a lot about our spending habits, even when the Internet is not the shopping platform.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Alfred E. Neuman, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 6:48am
But ...
by blocking ads you are Stealing the intarweb.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Steve R. (profile), Nov 1st, 2007 @ 6:56am
Missing the bigger picture
Personally, I don't have much of a problem with being "tracked" since it is invisible to me.
However, in this era of identity theft, security breaches of customer information, and the need for greater security - there are many advertising/marketing practices that should be severely curtailed.
1. The buying/selling/renting/whatever of customer information should be prohibited.
2. No automatic opt-in. Opt-in must be a voluntary action.
What has been ludicrous, companies claim to value your privacy and claim that they will handle your information in a secure manner, yet they will fight any regulation that proposes to protect the consumer. I guess they figure that despite any financial damage, they can still make more money by treating us as revenue units.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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sean, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 7:00am
Targeted Ads?
What the heck's that? I've never seen one - I get a load of ads for all sorts of junk that I don't want.
Use FF and NoScript and watch all those trackers servers scream![ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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TriZz, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 7:13am
Re: Targeted Ads?
"What the heck's that?"
Targeted ads are ads that are custom to you and what you're into. You're likely to click a link (ad) that has your favorite band in it, rather than a band you don't like.
Gmail has been doing this for awhile, whenever I get an email, the ad at the top of the page is usually something based on the content of the email. Example: A friend and I were discussing the new BlackBerry with the wifi capabilities, and I had an ad on the page for "the newest blackberries".
...sorta like that, except this new method is much more in depth. They track your movements throughout the web and target ads based on sites you frequent.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Steve R. (profile), Nov 1st, 2007 @ 7:21am
Targeted Adds
What??? No one remembers our hero walking through a lobby in "Minority Report" where all the TVs are screaming ads at him.
On several webpages, I have noted that Amazon.com has been able to insert ads targeted to me specifically, even though I am not "technically" logged-in.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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DNAtsol, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 7:24am
Maybe it's just me....
Odd how people seem so freaked out by this idea. Frankly, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
Hmm maybe because I use firefox and the adblock plus addon. "They" can collect all the data they want. I'll never be affected. I never see any ads.
When my wife and I are both on facebook I'm always surprised to see ads on her pages. We can be at the same site simultaneously and my page is clean, easily readable, no flashing annoying ads, scrolling banners, just the info I want to access.
I wonder if this is a privacy issue or a browser use issue (cough, cough) :)[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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DNAtsol, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 7:30am
Re: do not track list
As a psychologist, I can say with some certainly that while you think you are ignoring the ads some content and/or "brand awareness" does get through.
Have you noticed lately that ads on TV spent a lot more time with the brand icon on screen so you can see it even when you FF on your Tivo/DVR???
Advertisers are clever, after all, many of them have psychology backgrounds ;)[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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DNAtsol, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 7:35am
Re: But ...
When you head to a site with ads just remember you are a product not a consumer. The site is selling YOU to advertisers.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased), Nov 1st, 2007 @ 7:35am
Do not track
Isn't that what Ad Block Plus does? I guess they are still tracking me but I never see their ads anyway. Thanks Firefox![ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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I ressuscitated Elvis, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 8:16am
ADBLOCK, NOSCRIPT, FFpopup killer
I have all installed, I don't see annoying ads anymore,
but I am sure they track me everywhere i go, they may follow me to the bathroom if they want;
what's the matter,use more pseudo, have dynamic IP addresses, that's all[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Just Some Guy, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 9:18am
Targeted Ads
Do a search on google and look at the "Sponsored Results" listed to the right of your search results. It auto-fills a list of links related to your search terms. Ad blocking software and popup blockers will do nothing to stop these. This information is being returned on your main page.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Nismoto, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 11:28am
Re: Re: Targeted Ads?
Sarcasm: need not reply.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Nismoto, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 11:35am
Re: Maybe it's just me....
See the ads or not, the information is still being collected. It definitely isn't a browser use issue.Nice plug though...
[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Anonymous Coward, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 11:54am
Re: Targeted Ads
"Ad blocking software and popup blockers will do nothing to stop these."
Not true, you can use element filtering with NoScript to block literally ANY web content you like. Here's an example:
This is a search for the Nokia 6300 without blocking:
img223.imageshack.us/img223/7279/notblockediq2.jpg
This is the same search with blocking enabled:
img255.imageshack.us/img255/6898/noscriptblockedae6.jpg
Whilst I may be tracked, it really is useless as LITERALLY no ads get through my setup.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
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Anonymous Cowa