Scotty Roberts Interviews Philip Coppens

Posted on March 9, 2012 by Scotty Roberts

spacer

In the ancient alienist field of study, there have been many self-procliamed researchers come along who put forth theories that merely parrot the research of others, capitalizing on the pain-staking years of study of the grass roots laborer. In a heartbeat, they become the “new voice” catching the popular ear. There are very few who promulgate ideas that are not already long established trains of thought. Philip Coppens represents the thinking, practicing evolution of the hands-on field researcher who has established himself as an internationally renowned investigative journalist and author. He is labeled a ‘skeptic’ by the believers, and a ‘believer’ by the skeptics, firmly  accrediting him as a recognised, unequivocal voice of reason. Scotty Roberts recently had opportunity to sit down and chat with Philip regarding his new book, The Ancient Alien Question…

SR: Philip, along with millions of other people, I am thoroughly intrigued with this topic.

PC: Good!

SR: I find that I am still learning a lot about this topic. My own background is in theological studies, and I find that there is a lot I am still attempting to reconcile with this issue. It seems as if it takes just as much faith to believe in the Ancient Alien connection as it does to believe in God. Do you personally have any difficulty with this? How do you reconcile the ancient alien theory with the religious theologies?

PC:  Early on, the ancient alien approach was definitely appealing to certain people who were dissatisfied with the existence of God, but nevertheless somehow felt that the bible had to be interpreted at some form of level of fundamentalism. In short, that the bible is literally true, but at some level we have mistaken that the creatures [in the bible] are aliens and that they are not gods. And I think that is fundamentally wrong and is simply not the case. The bible, to me, is simply the story of the Jewish people, which relates their trials and tribulations, and also leaves records of the weird things that happened to them along the way. And these weird things that happened to them are in fact evidence of things larger and weirder than what our eyes might see. Some of this material is, what we would describe today, as UFO abduction, the story of Ezekiel probably being the best example, there.

But some of it is clearly straightforward Alien – not in the sense of ‘ancient alien,’ but alien in the sense of defining physics. So, when I am doing this book – which is roughly fifteen to sixteen years in the making – I think there are values which we should distinguish. That there is general ‘weirdness’ in this world and we have no idea where that weirdness comes from. There are certain things in the bible and various other accounts which show that we are being contacted by intelligences which are non-human. The Celts may have called them faeries and other cultures gave them different names. There is some evidence however – and I hail to the stories of Jonah and the whale and, again, Ezekiel, that makes it quite clear that some of these encounters are quite physical, in the sense that these creatures are physically real. Joseph Blumrich when speaking of Ezekiel’s vision at first said that he was going to discredit Von Daniken’s account. Blumrich was a NASA engineer and felt quite qualified to discount it. Except, when he actually read the accounts of Ezekiel in the Old Testament, he walked away with a clear knowledge that this biblical record was describing a nuts and bolts spaceship, rather than anything else. And he went on to write “The Spaceship of Ezekiel.”

When you look at all the evidence combined, what you find is that these beings, these non-human intelligences which have contacted man, whether physical or non-physical, and have given us the gift of civilization. They have given us information, which is sometimes very hard science, such as mathematics, biology and other sciences. But they also clearly have told us something else, which is the following – and this is where I think the ancient alien question is of great interest, and why the ancient alien question is so popular in modern civilization, because where we are right now, at this moment in time, is that we have this stand-off between the Church which basically tells us that we need to go through the priest, who will take care of all our needs through the Divine. On the other side, you have thousands of years of so-called heresy – the Cathars and Gnostics come to mind (there are so many of them) – traditions which basically tell us we can experience the Divine directly. And it is in that second category – the heresies, if you will – that we will actually find evidence of ancient aliens. in the sense of the information of experiencing the divine.

To some extent – and I didn’t go into this in the book as it would have made it far too long – people have looked into the yoga disciplines of the Asian and middle eastern cultures, and have identified that these techniques, first of all, as having been given to them by the ‘gods’ – quite clearly identified as non-human intelligences who taught our ancestors how to do these things. But also that the body of knowledge and the framework in which these things happened, clearly had a divine, of-the-gods connotation. It’s almost as if the gods – with a small ‘g’ – told us about God with the big ‘G.’ They told us about what happened to the soul after death, when we didn’t even know what it meant to have a soul. They told us about reincarnation. They told us what we were really here for and what we should do with our lives. And so, basically, all the things that we are meant to do in this life, if we are from a religious or spiritual discipline, those things you can trace back to mankind’s contact with non-human intelligences. And it’s simple because all of those contacts were part of the direct experience with the divine.

SR:  Are you saying that religion, then, came originally from human contact with non-humans? Because it sounds as if all the questions of the soul and life after death all have religious underpinnings. Are you saying it is the other way ‘round – non-human intelligences spoke of these things to ancient mankind, long before  – anthropologically speaking – mankind developed religion?

PC: On a number of occasions we can see that it is indeed likely that ‘ET’ in a physical form came here and told us about these things. But there is also another vast amount of evidence to suggest this non-human contact took place on a more physical plane, or psychic realm or spiritual one, but in both cases wee talking of knowledge of the soul. And so, just saying that ancient aliens is all about artifacts on earth that might show that ET has been here is very easy and definitely the most obvious one to go into. But in my book it’s just one aspect, and I think. As a whole, the quest into ancient aliens needs to be expanded into the latter part.

SR: So, remaining in a theological vein for a bit further, how would you answer those who might say that ancient alien theory is really only demonic in nature; something that distracts people from God, therefore is ‘of the devil?’ Even Nick Redfern wrote in his book, Final Events, about the Collins Elite, a part of the United States government housed in the Pentagon for the last fifty years, who have drawn the conclusion that all aliens and UFOs are indeed, demonic. While it is not your mission to convince people of anything, how do you respond to this line of thinking?

PC: Well, there are several things there. And you are correct in stating that it is not my task to convince people of anything. There is a burden of evidence which some hold too high and others far too low. It is my task as a researcher in this field to point out the evidence and leave it up to the reader to make up their minds. But I certainly hope they would agree with my analysis.

If it’s merely a case of looking into the bible and finding a source for this, you have the stories of Ezekiel, the stories of Jonah, the stories of the Nephilim. And even if these stories lead people down the line of thinking its all demonic, then if they believe that, they would also have to admit that it’s all real. And at least that’s a step ahead of some in the scientific realm who say that none of it ever really happened. It’s a good starting point, if that is what they choose to believe. At least with the demonic interpretation they have accepted that it is real. The only thing that has happened is a different interpretation of events. Now, in my analysis of all this material, were we to take the demonic interpretation, the material would suggest that these demons are somewhere here to lead us into bad things, things not of our best interest or spiritual development. My analysis definitely leads me to the conclusion that this is not the case. All these ancient contacts were for the good of mankind. I would ask them how they reconcile a demonic point-of-view with the fact that these things have been going on in mankind’s history of thousands and thousands of years, and much of it to the betterment of man. What I see is that all of these things are telling us we should develop and better ourselves.

SR: For you, Philip, what is either the single most significant piece of evidence – or string of evidences – that brings you to conclude that we have been contacted in our ancient past by alien races of one form or another?

PC:  The total sum of it. There is archaeological evidence that is considered to be definitive at this, and the reason for that is that the archaeological evidence needs the help of the scientific community to look into these things further. We need the scientist’s help in this. But as long as they contend and continue to say that ‘everything is wrong’ concerning the ancient alien question – enigma – therefore they do not need to look into these things on that basis, we will never get the answers. And this is because so much of these analysis involve such an enormous amounts of money and extraordinary access. There is one case – the ‘Chinese Roswell’ – which is far too long a story to touch on here and now, but what is needed is for scientists and researchers to go into the vast depths of China and conduct DNA analysis (among many other things) on what is a very remote tribe.

SR:  Why has no effort been mounted to conduct such an investigative study?

PC:  Well, the first thing that would happen if we attempted to do such a thing, is that the Chinese authorities would us why we were going to that remote location and for what purpose. We are left, then, to either lie about our intents, or tell them the absolute truth, that we are there to study the genetic influence of ancient aliens on the members of this particular tribe in China. Instantaneously, you will see your request for admission to China being answered in the, shall we say, ‘negative.’

SR:  Summarily denied.

PC:  Oh, yes. And, so, you either lie and cover up your actions, or you simply don’t. And that is why this sort of research is sometimes so difficult. And that is just one example. But to get back to your question, I think the best evidence lies in the historical and anthropological accounts, in which most of our ancient ancestors along the path of human development, specifically Civilization – they will state in their texts and writings and annals that they were helped by non-human intelligences. And I side and stand by the late Carl Sagan, who, for a book he wrote in 1979, took the story of Oannes, as told by the fourth century BCE historian Berossus, as the most tell-tale sign of this non-human interference. The story tells of a creature who came up out of the Persian Gulf, half-human, half-fish, who spoke during the day and taught the ancient Babylonians about mathematics, science, agriculture and other arts and so on. And at night he’d go back to the sea, returning a day or two later to continue where he had left off. In total, seven of these creatures came and went, picking up where the previous had left off in his teachings, giving the Mesopotamians the gift of civilization. And they were not alone, as this is something you see in so many cultures – the Inca, the Maya, etc. – they all speak of these types of non-human interactions. Sometimes they were physically present, and sometimes not. But in all cases they are saying that their cultures were at some point in their ancient pasts, contacted by non-human intelligences. And taking all that together, we have to start concluding that there is something that needs to be listened to from our ancient ancestors, and at least accept that this is what they believed. We can doubt all we want whether they were talking the truth or inventing things, but at least we have to accept that this is what they were saying. And right now, Science is unwilling to accept that, attempting to make it appear as if our ancestors were not saying that. Whereas, actually, they are.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Like aliens & ancient mysteries? Have you bought tickets to the Paradigm Symposium 2012 yet? What are you waiting for? Phillip Coppens will be there, along with Erich von Däniken, George Noory, Bill Birnes, Giorgio A. Tsoukalos, Ian Punnett, Nick Redfern, Marie D. Jones, Larry Flaxman and many more!!

Click here to learn more…

_____________________________________________________________________________

SR:  In my own research for the Rise and Fall of the Nephilim, I talk about Berossus and Oannes, and have found that this sort of ‘visitation’ by non-human-like entities seems to be a common thread woven throughout nearly every culture. It’s in their religious literature – which, by the way, is never far-removed from their historical writings – but in nearly all cultures, you find ancient writings that speak of some non-human presence that appears, teaching skills and helping that culture develop a civilization. The Watchers, in the biblical accounts, came down to earth to watch over and teach mankind civilization-developing skills and knowledges. Again, the common thread seems to be intelligences from outside the race of mankind.

PC:  Absolutely! And you find that when you look to the New World, the Mayans and Central American cultures have a vast amount of astronomical cycles thrown into the mix, dating back thousands and millions of years. The big question that arises is this: who in their right mind would think that a middle ages jungle culture would find the need to create calendars, keeping cycles of time, and being quite obsessive about it? Clearly, they were told that this cycle of time was important, but there is no indication as to how the Mayans would be able to pick up on this cycle of time keeping or even have the remotest of interests in this. It is clear that this is coming from a culture that is literally millions of years old and passed down this information to the Mayans.

It becomes even more interesting when you move down into South America. It is here that you have Veracocha who ascend from the region of Lake Titicaca and then walked down through the Sacred Valley, making his way to the Pacific Ocean. And along his path, he spread knowledge of science and civilization. It is within that specific sacred valley and the Bolivian plateau around Lake Titicaca that see the vast evidence of anomalous engineering that surpassed anything we see on the scale of civilized culture of the day. Pinta Puchu makes you wonder what our ancestors were really doing there, because that kind of engineering you really only see in high technological environments, today. And as you travel along the Sacred Valley you see more structures made of these enormous stone blocks, as in Cuzco, the seat of the Incan empire, and other places on the path.

So, when myth goes along with other anomalous archaeological finds, I think we once again find ourselves on very interesting ground which point you in the direction that the path of human civilization was not walked alone, but alongside these deities, these non-human intelligences.

SR:  Speaking of advanced engineering technologies, wasn’t there something you wrote about in your book regarding the cement that was used on some of the pyramids that is considered to be incredibly advanced for the time?

PC:  Absolutely. But the ‘cement’ thing isn’t a cement thing at all, and that is why it is of great interest. In the 1970s, Joseph Davidovich created a new science called, the science of geopolymers – in essence, the making of cement, for lack of an easier way to put it. It introduced geopolymerization. He looked to the world out there and recognized that natural rocks are obviously formed naturally – a process of time without any outside intervention. Davidovich sought to recreate rocks in the laboratory without the natural process, and he eventually achieved this goal after much trial and tribulation. When he went to Egypt – he always had a fascination with ancient cultures – he began to see how all the evidence around the construction of the great pyramid demonstrated the earmarks of geopolymer, and he lists at least 40 examples for the casual observer to see. To pinpoint one example, seashells, in most natural rock, is aligned, as the waves drew them in. In geopolymers, this is not the case, as these sorts of materials are thrown in randomly, and then very quickly hardened. He asked for samples from the great pyramid to do a proper analysis. And when he asked his Egyptologist friends this, they basically called him an idiot, and told him that the great pyramid was not made from cement! Now, even as recently as the last two or three years, colleagues of Davidovich in this field, have determined that the stones of the great pyramid are indeed made of geopolymers! So what we have here is Egyptology completely unwilling to look at the evidence from a fellow scientist. What is very interesting, of course, is that the science of geopolymers was discovered – or invented – in the 1970s, but it is also clear that someone in ancient Egyptian times knew about this. Some might say that there was some ancient genius who discovered this for himself, or that perhaps this is evidence of a ‘lost civilization.’ And even though that may be possible, we know who that person was. That person is none other than Imhotep, who went down into history as a ‘half-blood,’ as someone who was written about as being one who had received his advanced engineering methods from non-human intelligences. The ‘gods’ had revealed this information to Imhotep.

So, once again, we are faced with a piece of technology – or chemical engineering – that was reportedly given to our ancient ancestors through non-human intelligences.

SR:  Does all of this say that we human beings, then, simply did not possess the intelligence or ingenuity to develop these things on our own, without the aid of some extraterrestrial intelligence?

PC:  Well, most assuredly we would have developed this on our own, as Davidovich eventually demonstrated. This question is the big question thrown back at the ancient alien theorists by scientists and archaeologists. Archaeologists say that our ancestors were capable and clever enough of doing all these things by themselves. And so by arguing that they weren’t, attacks their intelligence and substantiated hypothesis. And they view this as a rather colonialist attitude toward them. And as easy as it is for them to make that accusation against us, I would make the counter accusation that our ancient ancestors insisted that they didn’t walk this path of advancement on their own. They didn’t take the credit! So if you want to pay due homage to our ancestors by denying them the validity of their own claims. You are denying them their truth, the truth that they claimed to walk the path with the gods – as they understood them.

Could they have done these things on their own? Perhaps. But as we are seeing more and more through the archaeological record, our ancestors had no clear need for this. Take for instance the building of CUMANCUCO (SP) by the Mayans. They say that they had no idea why they built it, but that it was their gods who built it. The hard fact is that we are being confronted with this sort of thing more and more as we deal with these questions. It’s in economics and politics. Look at this very conversation we are having right now – we are speaking to each other from half-way around the globe, yet it is as if we are in the same room. Look at the social networks that are drawing people and keeping them bonded over great distances. Civilization is something good, and most of our current environment is just ‘us.’ While we look back at ancient civilization, it is the story of a great adventure and accomplishment for humankind. All we are saying is that we were helped along those paths by non-human intelligences. We were helped along the path of our civilization, much like we can forge friendship a half a world away.

SR:  Are they still involved with us today? Why does all this seem to have only happened to our ancient ancestors, in times when we cannot really prove what really happened? Is there some connection between something that happened thousands of years ago and things that happen today, in the here and now? In my own book I mention the connection between the events and place along the 33rd parallel north of the equator. It was on this line that the Watchers first touched down on Mt. Hermon, thousands of years ago, but then you trace that line to exact opposite spot on the globe, and you find yourself in Roswell, New Mexico. Is there some connection between what happened in the past and what happens a mere 70 years ago? Why are they not “working with us” today, and if they are, why is it not more evident?

PC:  The answer at this moment in time is that we do not know. Is it possible? I think yes. But – and how shall I put this? -  in the second chapter of the book, I go into some of the bigger pop cultural theories, such as those put forward by the likes of Zechariah Sitchin, David Icke and William Bradley. And they present a picture of ET in the past as something that they have completely identified as simply a one extraterrestrial civilization that existed somewhere in our ancient past. That civilization, according to these proponents, came here, and everything that is anomalous on this planet can be linked to and attributed to their activity and interaction with ancient mankind. And most certainly  the archaeological and anthropological record – not to mention the mythological record – at all suggests that it was that simple. The “Chinese Roswell,” if it could be proven correct, clearly shows that that event was something of an accident. ET crashed, didn’t know what to do, intermingled with local people, bequeathed descendents, and that was that. If anything, if there was this global alien civilization as some of these guys put forth, you would think that there might have been a rescue party and these beings would have been picked up.

What the ancient alien record suggests is that non-human intelligences contacted us in the past, and there is no reason that we know of for why that is not still happening in the present. There is still a modern-day component to these contacts, but I do not think you can say that is as straight forward as what happened with the anomalous dealings of the ancient past. That ET was here and is still here is far too simplistic. But if we were to ask if some of the old ETs are still around, I would say yes. Specifically and definitely, but probably in a less physical way, if that makes sense. Think of it on a more metaphysical means.

Part of the reason it is so difficult to answer this question, is that the UFO subject is so complex, and the little information we have about it is so controversial, that I think we need to gain more clarity as to what precisely is going on before we can draw any fiorm conclusions.

SR:  Do you think that the personalities you know and deal with – someone like a David Icke – can take this information and use it for political ends? Can some of these people present this information and take it too far, politicizing and building, almost, a cult following?

PC: Yes. To take someone like David Icke, he goes out there and offers up grand conspiracies based on  his theorizing on these ancient non-human intelligences. But I think this is s great thing,. I t makes people ask questions! Occupy Wall Street and other movements all are based on some ‘awakening,’ if you will. David Icke actually says it isn’t the world leaders who hold the fate of mankind, it is this ‘hidden hand’ at work behind the scenes. Not even royalty or bankers, we still have a way to make a difference. But they take it further to say that there is some alien intelligence is behind all the great powers of the earth, abusing us for thousands of years. Beyond groups like the illuminati. He says that there are alien powers that want to come and reestablish alien hierarchy over the subjugated peoples of the earth. I have serious problems with that. There is no evidence whatsoever for that, and it engenders an culture of fear rathe34r than one of advancement and furthering civilizations. These people are looking for absolute, final answers that do not exist. We want to know some sort of final truth, and all these theorists are extraordinarily enticing because they claim they have all these answers. And if those sorts of answers were knowable and attainable, my book would be called “The Ancient Alien Answer,” not “The Ancient Alien Question!” [ laughter ]

SR: Right! Haha! I see you as a researcher and an observer – someone who is looking for answers, not providing us THE complete, definitive answer to anything within your own, personal framework.

PC:  I would say that there are two types of ancient alien researchers out there: on the History Channel, we are quite often referred to as “according to some ancient alien theorists…” But most of us who are there are not theorists. We do not put forward any theories.

I point out evidence. Then I ask, “could this be?”

Erich (Von Daniken) in his approach, has always asked those questions. He has always posed questions and asked whether or not it could be possible. He has never once stated something like, “the ancient Greek gods were all ETs who came from planet x, y, z…” We are not theorists. We are researchers. Ancient alien researchers.

SR:  Do you believe this entire issue stands, as of today? Are we getting any closer to finding answers, or do we still stand with a huge list of unanswerable questions?

PC:  We still have an enormous amount of questions hanging out there, but we are realizing some very precise means of seeing some answers. For those questions to be answered, we need to have the engagement of Science – or the ‘power of science’ – to answer these. If this is not happening, we will never get to the answers.

SR:  How do we get that? How do we find peer review? How do we get science to cross that line?

PC:  That is going to be a very hard thing to do. Science and the politics of science and the scientific community – not to mention the political atmosphere in the world – scientists are given a very easy ride in pop culture and in the media. Science only gets in that controversial light and exposed in areas such as climate science, right now. All because that is a highly politicized scientific debate. Many things, however, in science are not so politicized, is they tend to be able to do whatever they want under the mantle of scientific research. And I believe that what Ancient Aliens (on the History Channel) is doing, is pioneering, and over the next decade we will see many changes come about in this field of research.

All the woes and ills of politics and economics are currently embedded into the scientific community. And I believe that this will be exposed and opened up, and there will be a popular call demanding that the scientific start addressing these sorts of things that people want to hear about and know, if they wish to remain funded and supported by the people. When it comes to other fields of study, such as NDE (Near Death Experience), science says that this has nothing at all to do with us and is unimportant for serious study and research, and ought only to be placed into the category of ‘religion.’ This is simply something that I do not think can get away with much longer. There are things that the scientific community should be analyzing and studying, but they simply refuse to do so.

So, I think we are closer than we were forty-five years ago, but to a large extent, if we are seeking an ancient alien “answer,” that must be in league with the scientific community. Things such as DNA testing and other sorts of examination need to be done in a scientific setting with the sorts of equipment necessary to do such things. I t cannot be accomplished without the cooperation. These things will, I believe, be dealt with in the next five-to-ten years. NASA itself is being hit with these hard questions, when it comes to the quest for alien life – not just ‘ancient’ alien life. And they are hoping that within fifteen to twenty years they will have definitive proof as to the existence of extraterrestrials.

The proof of the existence of life and civilization that is not of this earth, out there somewhere, will be a major stepping stone to knowing that we are not alone in the universe. The next will be: when will – or when did – ET makes contact with us? And it is, obviously, in the past tense that the ancient alien studies are located.

SR:  Thanks, Philip. I appreciate your time.

PC:  Absolutely, Scotty. Thank you.

This entry was posted in Ancient Aliens and tagged ancient aliens, New Page Books, Philip Coppens, The ancient Alien Question, the history channel. Bookmark the permalink.

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published.

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a class="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>